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[Tweaktown] Intel unveils plans for desktop processor lineups and mini PCs - Page 5

post #41 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitech View Post

Both statements are still true I don't see what the problem is.
The problem is we don't get to have fun and see what the overclocking potential of the low end chips are. The most fun I've had overclocking was with the 65nm Intel chips. I could take a 1.86GHz E6300 and get it to 3.4GHz. I could take a 1.6GHz Celeron E1200 to 3.2GHz. Unleashing the crazy potential of those low-end chips is what made overclocking fun for me. If I were to build a new system, I'd just be overclocking the same 4770k chip that everyone else is overclocking, and that isn't any fun, at least not to me.
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post #42 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I don't think the pentium will be over $100. I'd guess $80 or $90.

Were pentiums always this cheap? I just checked Amazon UK and they have 3ghz Haswell pentiums on offer £39.99 >shipped< (after VAT etc)

I've never seen a 4670k hit £160 and the lowest i've seen 7850k is the ~£130 that i see now.

If you can afford a 3ghz Haswell pentium and a 750 and have money left over vs a 7850k that's pretty insane. Crazy sub-100w gaming system.

Waiting to see what unlocked ver would cost and how well it clocks, even a haswell dual core without HT would have a lot of muscle at 4.5g+
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/20/14 at 10:12pm
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post #43 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmist View Post

The problem is we don't get to have fun and see what the overclocking potential of the low end chips are. The most fun I've had overclocking was with the 65nm Intel chips. I could take a 1.86GHz E6300 and get it to 3.4GHz. I could take a 1.6GHz Celeron E1200 to 3.2GHz. Unleashing the crazy potential of those low-end chips is what made overclocking fun for me. If I were to build a new system, I'd just be overclocking the same 4770k chip that everyone else is overclocking, and that isn't any fun, at least not to me.

This. OCing AMD or 1156/earlier Intel is way funner than newer Intel, as one of my friends calls it: "Shake and Bake OCing".
    
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post #44 of 98
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitech View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmist View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post


I wish they would make a 2 core w/HT i5 that was unlocked... that would be a nice CPU to make a HTPC with.
You would trade 2 real cores with virtual ones? Why?
Quote:
I mean I know everyone thinks that you need 4 or more cores but if you look up Linus Tech Tips how many cores do you need for gaming they show that 1 core with HT is only marginally slower than 6 cores with HT and that 2 cores without HT is the same exact speed as 6 cores with HT...

I know that everyone wants to think that new games will change that... but most games won't and if a game comes out that can they will be few and far between... So I welcome a budget overclocking CPU... its just to bad it will not have HT...

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/28256-how-many-cores-of-cpu-do-you-really-need/
I looked it up on Linus Tech Tips but they say you need 4 or 8 cores. So I don't know where you get the idea that we only need 1 or 2 cores. And you never specified whether you're talking about games like Battlefield 4 or 2D Indie Games.
And what makes you so sure "most" games only need 1 or 2 cores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmist View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

I mean I know everyone thinks that you need 4 or more cores but if you look up Linus Tech Tips how many cores do you need for gaming they show that 1 core with HT is only marginally slower than 6 cores with HT and that 2 cores without HT is the same exact speed as 6 cores with HT...

...Are you sure? Gaming on a Core 2 Duo E6700 @ Stock vs a Phenom II x3 at the same clocks (Very similar in IPC and per core performance, honestly) is much quicker on the Phenom II in general simply because of its 3rd core. Even games like Starcraft 2 (Only dual threaded) are faster with 3 cores because it allows it to offload system related functions (ie. Windows eating up clock cycles) to the third core...It surely depends on the games you test because I know BF3, BF4, Crysis 3, Civ V among others benefit from having 4 cores for sure, and if you want your rig to be any sort of future proof you'd want more than an overclocked dual core in 2014.


I wish they would make a 2 core w/HT i5 that was unlocked
I should have elaborated... still have a 4 core that is unlocked but if they don't want to sell an unlocked i3 then they could instead call an i3 an i5 just like they do with their laptops... they have dual core hyperthreaded i5s... I would mind plopping one of these into an HTPC if it existed and cost less than the normal i5.

In response to the 2 people talking about gaming performance on dual cores...

One of you even mentioned that BF3 performed better and benefits from having 4 cores... (IT DOESN'T) and the other said Linus Tech Tips recommends 4 cores or something...

As for the 3rd core running other non game related things... sure but this should not be substantial and should fit in with all the little spots of unused area on the CPU while your gaming...

Hear is PROOF that BF3 and believe me plenty of other games DOES NOT benefit from having more than 2 cores...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4PDoy-mi0A

IDEALLY THOUGH... I would prefer to have 2 cores with hyper-threading just in case... which is why I don't like the idea of the unlocked Pentium nearly as much as an unlocked i3... 2 cores and no hyperthreading just isn't going to cut it sometimes...


I don't doubt that you felt as if the game performed much better and I know that a lot of people really do believe this or that about need 4 cores... Honestly I believe you should have 2 cores with HT or 4 cores just to make sure there is never an issue... but some people like to try and go as far to say that an i7 is better than an i5 or that an AMD 8 core is better than an AMD 4 core... THEY ARE NOT!!! as in all honestly 2 cores is all that most games can fully utilize...

OF COURSE nothing wrong with having more cores... I am simply stating that there is a lot that could be done with an OC'd i3 if they existed...

If you need to prove or disprove it to yourself it is quite simple... run several game benchmarks with all your cores and then with only 2 cores running... just make sure you get rid of all your background crap as I am not saying that 2 cores is ideal for multi-tasking while gaming because it isn't.
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post #45 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmist View Post

The problem is we don't get to have fun and see what the overclocking potential of the low end chips are. The most fun I've had overclocking was with the 65nm Intel chips. I could take a 1.86GHz E6300 and get it to 3.4GHz. I could take a 1.6GHz Celeron E1200 to 3.2GHz. Unleashing the crazy potential of those low-end chips is what made overclocking fun for me. If I were to build a new system, I'd just be overclocking the same 4770k chip that everyone else is overclocking, and that isn't any fun, at least not to me.
Why not just get an AMD CPU instead of waiting for Intel to unlock theirs?
post #46 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitech View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmist View Post

The problem is we don't get to have fun and see what the overclocking potential of the low end chips are. The most fun I've had overclocking was with the 65nm Intel chips. I could take a 1.86GHz E6300 and get it to 3.4GHz. I could take a 1.6GHz Celeron E1200 to 3.2GHz. Unleashing the crazy potential of those low-end chips is what made overclocking fun for me. If I were to build a new system, I'd just be overclocking the same 4770k chip that everyone else is overclocking, and that isn't any fun, at least not to me.
Why not just get an AMD CPU instead of waiting for Intel to unlock theirs?

Some people like Intel... besides wouldn't it be hilarious to see something like an i3 crush a 8350 in gaming.
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post #47 of 98
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitech View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmist View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post


I wish they would make a 2 core w/HT i5 that was unlocked... that would be a nice CPU to make a HTPC with.
You would trade 2 real cores with virtual ones? Why?
Quote:
I mean I know everyone thinks that you need 4 or more cores but if you look up Linus Tech Tips how many cores do you need for gaming they show that 1 core with HT is only marginally slower than 6 cores with HT and that 2 cores without HT is the same exact speed as 6 cores with HT...

I know that everyone wants to think that new games will change that... but most games won't and if a game comes out that can they will be few and far between... So I welcome a budget overclocking CPU... its just to bad it will not have HT...

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/28256-how-many-cores-of-cpu-do-you-really-need/
I looked it up on Linus Tech Tips but they say you need 4 or 8 cores. So I don't know where you get the idea that we only need 1 or 2 cores. And you never specified whether you're talking about games like Battlefield 4 or 2D Indie Games.
And what makes you so sure "most" games only need 1 or 2 cores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmist View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

I mean I know everyone thinks that you need 4 or more cores but if you look up Linus Tech Tips how many cores do you need for gaming they show that 1 core with HT is only marginally slower than 6 cores with HT and that 2 cores without HT is the same exact speed as 6 cores with HT...

...Are you sure? Gaming on a Core 2 Duo E6700 @ Stock vs a Phenom II x3 at the same clocks (Very similar in IPC and per core performance, honestly) is much quicker on the Phenom II in general simply because of its 3rd core. Even games like Starcraft 2 (Only dual threaded) are faster with 3 cores because it allows it to offload system related functions (ie. Windows eating up clock cycles) to the third core...It surely depends on the games you test because I know BF3, BF4, Crysis 3, Civ V among others benefit from having 4 cores for sure, and if you want your rig to be any sort of future proof you'd want more than an overclocked dual core in 2014.
Quote:
I wish they would make a 2 core w/HT i5 that was unlocked
I should have elaborated... still have a 4 core that is unlocked but if they don't want to sell an unlocked i3 then they could instead call an i3 an i5 just like they do with their laptops... they have dual core hyperthreaded i5s... I would mind plopping one of these into an HTPC if it existed and cost less than the normal i5.

In response to the 2 people talking about gaming performance on dual cores...

One of you even mentioned that BF3 performed better and benefits from having 4 cores... (IT DOESN'T) and the other said Linus Tech Tips recommends 4 cores or something...

As for the 3rd core running other non game related things... sure but this should not be substantial and should fit in with all the little spots of unused area on the CPU while your gaming...

Hear is PROOF that BF3 and believe me plenty of other games DOES NOT benefit from having more than 2 cores...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4PDoy-mi0A

IDEALLY THOUGH... I would prefer to have 2 cores with hyper-threading just in case... which is why I don't like the idea of the unlocked Pentium nearly as much as an unlocked i3... 2 cores and no hyperthreading just isn't going to cut it sometimes...


I don't doubt that you felt as if the game performed much better and I know that a lot of people really do believe this or that about need 4 cores... Honestly I believe you should have 2 cores with HT or 4 cores just to make sure there is never an issue... but some people like to try and go as far to say that an i7 is better than an i5 or that an AMD 8 core is better than an AMD 4 core... THEY ARE NOT!!! as in all honestly 2 cores is all that most games can fully utilize...

OF COURSE nothing wrong with having more cores... I am simply stating that there is a lot that could be done with an OC'd i3 if they existed...

If you need to prove or disprove it to yourself it is quite simple... run several game benchmarks with all your cores and then with only 2 cores running... just make sure you get rid of all your background crap as I am not saying that 2 cores is ideal for multi-tasking while gaming because it isn't.

So I am going to do some benchmarking of my own so I can have a thread to bounce back to so when I tell people dual cores are fine and 10 others say it is not I have some proof more than just 1 game that Linus Tech Tips showed...

So the very first game I ran was Assassins Creed and the results are within the margin of error with the dual core having a high max frame rate which I trump to margin of error and it not being a fixed benchmark and it being a manual run through.

That's at 4.8GHz and 2 GTX 680s

I think I am going to do these tests on a 290X with a Xeon since I can do comparisons of quad core no HT and dual core with HT... which would further explain why I would prefer to see an unlocked dual core with hyperthreading...


Please guys stop kidding yourselves about this 4, 6, 8 cores actually be utilized nonsense!!!

The bottom line is if you have a 8350 and by disabling 4 of the cores you can run it 400-500MHz faster because you where limited by heat THEN DO SO... I know it is tough to swallow that 2 cores is enough but it is and 4 cores... way more than enough...

I do agree that 3 cores is really the magic number or 2 cores with HT. The thing is windows background processes will not utilize an entire cores worth of processor so HT would probably be enough...
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post #48 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


I wish they would make a 2 core w/HT i5 that was unlocked
I should have elaborated... still have a 4 core that is unlocked but if they don't want to sell an unlocked i3 then they could instead call an i3 an i5 just like they do with their laptops... they have dual core hyperthreaded i5s... I would mind plopping one of these into an HTPC if it existed and cost less than the normal i5.

In response to the 2 people talking about gaming performance on dual cores...

One of you even mentioned that BF3 performed better and benefits from having 4 cores... (IT DOESN'T) and the other said Linus Tech Tips recommends 4 cores or something...

As for the 3rd core running other non game related things... sure but this should not be substantial and should fit in with all the little spots of unused area on the CPU while your gaming...

Hear is PROOF that BF3 and believe me plenty of other games DOES NOT benefit from having more than 2 cores...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4PDoy-mi0A

IDEALLY THOUGH... I would prefer to have 2 cores with hyper-threading just in case... which is why I don't like the idea of the unlocked Pentium nearly as much as an unlocked i3... 2 cores and no hyperthreading just isn't going to cut it sometimes...


I don't doubt that you felt as if the game performed much better and I know that a lot of people really do believe this or that about need 4 cores... Honestly I believe you should have 2 cores with HT or 4 cores just to make sure there is never an issue... but some people like to try and go as far to say that an i7 is better than an i5 or that an AMD 8 core is better than an AMD 4 core... THEY ARE NOT!!! as in all honestly 2 cores is all that most games can fully utilize...

OF COURSE nothing wrong with having more cores... I am simply stating that there is a lot that could be done with an OC'd i3 if they existed...

If you need to prove or disprove it to yourself it is quite simple... run several game benchmarks with all your cores and then with only 2 cores running... just make sure you get rid of all your background crap as I am not saying that 2 cores is ideal for multi-tasking while gaming because it isn't.

What difference would renaming a Core i3 to i5 make? If you want a cheap, unlocked processor then get AMD.

For gamers on a budget, dual-cores are good, yes. People generally recommend at least a quad-core so gamers won't have to worry about their CPU slowing down the performance of any current or future game. And you shouldn't worry about people recommending 8-cores over quad-cores because it's generally accepted in the PC gaming community 8-cores have little benefit over quad-cores.

And why do you keep wanting to have a unlocked dual-core with hyper-threading? Why not just get an AMD FX, A-series Athlon II -K processor???
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

So I am going to do some benchmarking of my own so I can have a thread to bounce back to so when I tell people dual cores are fine and 10 others say it is not I have some proof more than just 1 game that Linus Tech Tips showed...

So the very first game I ran was Assassins Creed and the results are within the margin of error with the dual core having a high max frame rate which I trump to margin of error and it not being a fixed benchmark and it being a manual run through.

That's at 4.8GHz and 2 GTX 680s

I think I am going to do these tests on a 290X with a Xeon since I can do comparisons of quad core no HT and dual core with HT... which would further explain why I would prefer to see an unlocked dual core with hyperthreading...


Please guys stop kidding yourselves about this 4, 6, 8 cores actually be utilized nonsense!!!

The bottom line is if you have a 8350 and by disabling 4 of the cores you can run it 400-500MHz faster because you where limited by heat THEN DO SO... I know it is tough to swallow that 2 cores is enough but it is and 4 cores... way more than enough...

I do agree that 3 cores is really the magic number or 2 cores with HT. The thing is windows background processes will not utilize an entire cores worth of processor so HT would probably be enough...

Wow dude just calm down. You're really going off topic with this # of cores thing. If you really feel the need to show benchmarks about core count then make your own thread about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Some people like Intel... besides wouldn't it be hilarious to see something like an i3 crush a 8350 in gaming.
It's already hilarious that a large number of AMD's CPU's can be overclocked, but only a few of Intel's are unlocked.
Edited by Bitech - 3/21/14 at 12:27am
post #49 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitech View Post

Why not just get an AMD CPU instead of waiting for Intel to unlock theirs?
I usually do go with AMD CPUs these days for new low-end to mid-range builds that I do for family members or friends. As for my personal rig, I'm pretty sure my X3440 clocked at 3.6GHz comes close enough to the 8350 from AMD that the upgrade wouldn't be worth the cost. Either way, I have all the power I need for now, it will just be interesting to see where I go once DDR4 comes around and I decide to upgrade. I have no idea if that will be Intel or AMD, I'll just have to see what will get me the bang for my buck.
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post #50 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by f0rteOC View Post

If the unlocked Pentium has Iris Pro, AMD's APUs will only have an advantage in HSA and Mantle.
Intel did in no way do sorcery with Iris and Iris Pro actually it is another step like 3000 4000 just with a fast memory buffer.

And in any game due to drivers and in every game since Iris Pro on itself is nothing unless paired with L4 to make up for that it isn't up to a real graphics portion.
The L4 however can not save the chip at resolutions beyond 720P because that is when it starts to flood and completely poops on itself.

All with all Intel can't touch AMD here and by the time they can AMD should've fixed their bandwidth problems on their new APU making it ready for release.


Nevertheless if they can bring out a cheap Iris Pro chip with L4 for a decent price that would be good for the market but knowing Intel I think it will be overpriced to the moon and back.
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