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[Engadget] Intel flaunts 8-core Extreme Edition Haswell with support for DDR4 memory - Page 7  

post #61 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by istudy92 View Post

This may sound like a noob question but
why exactly isnt and amd 83xx not a true 8 core?

Answer to come, first I'll address the two wrong answers to this question you've received so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Because AMD likes to count both CPU cores and iGPU cores as the same cores, when they don't work that way. It's barely correct, and totally marketing spin.

Wrong/incomplete- or at least this answer doesn't address the charge that a 8 core fx cpu isn't an 8 core cpu. What they do with the kavari apu however... i address next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadmoto View Post

its something to do with 4 cores being "logical" and there only being 4 actual "physical" cores, In a sense, its hyperthreading, but they are effectively used as cpu cores.
I can't find where I was reading about it and had the specifics. >.<<br />

Madi is right about the New APUs, they are "12 core" cpus but only 4 for the CPU and 8 for the igpu, from what I've been told.

ah... yeah... AMD deserves some flack for the APU - 12 core thing. As much flack as Intel deserved (and got) for claiming in 2005 that hyperthreaded P4s were dual core cpus. But the APU thing and the Piledriver 8 core thing are totally separate issues completely. That said, AMD is clearly trying to rebuild the whole concept of the cpu with the Kavari APU; so i get where they're going but it's still as stupid as those original hyperthreading commercials (at least they aren't doing a national TV ad campaign claiming it's a 12 core... that would really be embarrassing).


Now then, onto the topic of the bulldozer cpu architecture. Some intel fanboys like to make the claim its a type of "hyperthreading" and not a true "8/6/4" core cpu. I suppose i can sorta see their point of view but like most fanboy arguments it's based on a lack of understanding or just pure sophistry.

The engineering definition of a cpu "core" is that a core must have 3 parts
1) instruction control unit
2) instruction execution unit
3) input/ouput unit

AMD's bulldozer family cpu cores have all of these parts; each core module contains 2 separate cores, each one of those cores has their their own scheduler (control unit), 4 execution units, and an I/O unit.

The confusion about the bulldozer architecture, comes from the floating point processor unit. You see up until 2000 or so, no cpu had a floating point processor. In fact computers around 1997 started to include math-coprocessors add on boards to handle the floating point math... around 2000 cpus started to integrate the math coprocessor, called a floating point processor onto the cpu itself. These units basically handle floating point math (calculus) which traditional cpus rather suck at. Now understand, these floating point processors are completely separate units from the cpu core on both an AMD and Intel cpu... in a way they're sorta the progenitor to the whole concept of an APU, as all a gpu really is, is a highly specialized math coprocessor or calculus calculator. AMD chose, with bulldozer, to place 1 256-bit floating point processors on their cpu per core module... that single FPU is naturally a 256-bit unit, but when needed can function like 2 128 bit FPUs, THIS is the part that works like a gimped version of intel's hyperthreading; as in it's a single FPU which can at times, when needed handle 2 instructions at the same time.

The fx cpus ARE by every definition proper 4/6/8 core cpus. They just work a little different with their design then an intel cpu... or even the older retired AMD k10 architecture; with bulldozer AMD went modular, it's intention was to make a chip they could easily customize for server environments, and any other "unique" environments they may be requested by a client to match. Its actually because of the highly modular design of bulldozer that AMD landed the 2 next gen consoles... it simply was cheaper and easier to make a custom chip for both M$ and Sony then it was for anyone else to do. Its also because of this modular and unfocused design that bulldozer/piledriver/steamroller simply can't compete in performance with intel's highly specialized performance cpu lines.
 
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post #62 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlps5122 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliteReplay View Post

a 2500K has to be overcloed to the moon... to play games like BF4 and even OCed to the moon the CPU usage is like 70-80% so with that you can tell that CPU is almost useless... imagine using 2 GPUs on that one?

yeah i agree... but tells me where and when do we need a 8core CPU just to do gaming? or even render or encoding? did you saw the review on xeon on tomshardware? is barely better than the 4960X.

people just like to brag new stuff thats it.

u dont need a 6 core for gaming either, so not sure why u bought it biggrin.gif

You can do more than game on a PC. I know there would be a significant difference in my video encoding times if I had a 12 thread capable CPU. Even just in rip times between a Q6600 and the I7-860 the extra threads show their worth since if I turn off HT on the I7-860 the difference isn't that big. There isn't a lot of difference from the I7-860 and the 2600K though provided both have HT on.

I'd still be rocking a LGA1156 I7-860 at 4Ghz if I hadn't needed it for my server...something a 2600K never could do. So I re-purposed it and "upgraded" to a 2600K.

I used to never be caught dead with a CPU that was even two generations behind, but now? I just can't justify the purchase. Perhaps that isn't the correct OCN attitude, but damn it...I'm a cheap bastard.
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post #63 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

You can do more than game on a PC. I know there would be a significant difference in my video encoding times if I had a 12 thread capable CPU. Even just in rip times between a Q6600 and the I7-860 the extra threads show their worth since if I turn off HT on the I7-860 the difference isn't that big. There isn't a lot of difference from the I7-860 and the 2600K though provided both have HT on.

I'd still be rocking a LGA1156 I7-860 at 4Ghz if I hadn't needed it for my server...something a 2600K never could do. So I re-purposed it and "upgraded" to a 2600K.

I used to never be caught dead with a CPU that was even two generations behind, but now? I just can't justify the purchase. Perhaps that isn't the correct OCN attitude, but damn it...I'm a cheap bastard.

i know im just mocking the philosophy of 'you dont need 8 cores'. i plan on buying this 8 core extreme cpu
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post #64 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Perhaps that isn't the correct OCN attitude, but damn it...I'm a cheap bastard.

I can feel ya there.
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post #65 of 242
This may be a stupid question, but is it only this 8-core that is supporting DDR4? Or are there going to be other, potentially cheaper -E's that do?
post #66 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Because AMD likes to count both CPU cores and iGPU cores as the same cores

FX parts do not have GPU cores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadmoto View Post

its something to do with 4 cores being "logical" and there only being 4 actual "physical" cores, In a sense, its hyperthreading, but they are effectively used as cpu cores.

An FX-8xxx is physically an eight core part. They do not have hyperthreading or any equivalent form of SMT.

The cores are individually weak, and share more resources than is common, but this does not change the fact that they are cores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

As much flack as Intel deserved (and got) for claiming in 2005 that hyperthreaded P4s were dual core cpus.

I don't recall Intel ever claiming such a thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

This may be a stupid question, but is it only this 8-core that is supporting DDR4? Or are there going to be other, potentially cheaper -E's that do?

Every Haswell-E part and everything else ever released on LGA-2011-3 will require DDR4.
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post #67 of 242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PewpewLaser View Post

Didn't they say the same thing about the 3770k and 4770k?
Oh they say that everytime rolleyes.gif
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post #68 of 242
I wonder if will see 400-450 6-Core part. once 8 Core K is out.

4670K 200
4770K 300
5930K 450
5950K 600
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post #69 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

I wonder if will see 400-450 6-Core part.

That's kinda what I'm hoping for at this point.
post #70 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

That's kinda what I'm hoping for at this point.

I just hope the 8 core is not $1500
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