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post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiceAir View Post

sometimes it's not microstutter i'm worried about but rather low fps and gpu's then not having usage of 99% and cpu usage is high then. That's my problem so maybe the 3770k will help me.

Once dat baby is installed, you'll see your gpu usage skyrocket. biggrin.gif Make sure you crank up the fan speed. My main gpu fanspeed is set to 75% (bf4 gaming). The 2nd is set to 60%. Make sure you have the latest beta installed.
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post #12 of 22
1. The games you listed are all pretty CPU-intensive so upgrading the CPU will likely help on those particular games.

2. However, a consistent 90-99% GPU usage, esp. on 2 high-end cards, is actually quite good.

3. You likely won't always get 99% GPU usage no matter what your CPU is.

Which is to say, <99% GPU usage is often, but is by no means always, due to an 'external' bottleneck like the CPU. Remember that your video card is not a monolithic entity. It's actually nearly an entire other PC ... within your PC.

When you measure 'gpu usage', it is in many ways only an approximation. It's a measurement at one point of the rendering chain, the one most LIKELY to act as the 'limiting factor' to performance, but ... there are many OTHER points in the rendering chain (in the card as a whole) that can act as a bottleneck, and lower your 'usage %', such as by maxing out the capacity of your ROP's, your Memory Bandwidth, your Memory Amount (if not 'enough'), your shaders, your texture units, etc. IOW, there's no such thing as measuring the 'usage' of your entire card.

Oftentimes, <99% GPU usage just reflects poor coding (remember the poor optimization of Skyrim when it came out, causing an massive CPU BN in certain spots like Whiterun?), or a bad driver interaction with that coding, or a bottleneck in a part of the card that is NOT ... the point at which you're taking the 'gpu usage measurement'.

Lastly, also remember that CPU usage measurements are probably even worse in terms of being accurate. They're not a 'bare metal' real-time measurement, they're more like software-based (i.e. Windows) approximation of usage.

The OVERALL usage is reasonably accurate, but what you (believe you) see 'happening' on each core ... means jack squat. And in order for even the overall usage to mean something, you have to know how well the game code runs on multiple threads in order to be able to (maybe) reckon whether your cpu is acting as the bottleneck.

A good way to see if you're being cpu BN'd is to go to a particular area of a game where you consistently and reliably see <99% usage, and just stand there, while running fraps for a minute or so, then check your FPS afterwards. Then, OC your cpu, and do the exact same test. Does your FPS rise with the CPU clock? What's the ratio in terms of % change in FPS / % change in CPU clock?

The more that ratio approaches 1, then the more heavily you're CPU BN'd. If there's no increase in FPS, then your CPU isn't the issue. But remember this test ONLY applies to the exact spot in the exact game, at those exact settings. It's not in any way 'universal'. But within the SAME game, it's somewhat reasonable to assume that all instances of <99% usage ... are being caused by the 'same thing'.
Edited by brettjv - 3/21/14 at 5:44pm
    
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post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

1. The games you listed are all pretty CPU-intensive so upgrading the CPU will likely help on those particular games.

2. However, a consistent 90-99% GPU usage, esp. on 2 high-end cards, is actually quite good.

3. You likely won't always get 99% GPU usage no matter what your CPU is.

Which is to say, <99% GPU usage is often, but is by no means always, due to an 'external' bottleneck like the CPU. Remember that your video card is not a monolithic entity. It's actually nearly an entire other PC ... within your PC.

When you measure 'gpu usage', it is in many ways only an approximation. It's a measurement at one point of the rendering chain, the one most LIKELY to act as the 'limiting factor' to performance, but ... there are many OTHER points in the rendering chain (in the card as a whole) that can act as a bottleneck, and lower your 'usage %', such as by maxing out the capacity of your ROP's, your Memory Bandwidth, your Memory Amount (if not 'enough'), your shaders, your texture units, etc. IOW, there's no such thing as measuring the 'usage' of your entire card.

Oftentimes, <99% GPU usage just reflects poor coding (remember the poor optimization of Skyrim when it came out, causing an massive CPU BN in certain spots like Whiterun?), or a bad driver interaction with that coding, or a bottleneck in a part of the card that is NOT ... the point at which you're taking the 'gpu usage measurement'.


Lastly, also remember that CPU usage measurements are probably even worse in terms of being accurate. They're not a 'bare metal' real-time measurement, they're more like software-based (i.e. Windows) approximation of usage.

The OVERALL usage is reasonably accurate, but what you (believe you) see 'happening' on each core ... means jack squat. And in order for even the overall usage to mean something, you have to know how well the game code runs on multiple threads in order to be able to (maybe) reckon whether your cpu is acting as the bottleneck.

A good way to see if you're being cpu BN'd is to go to a particular area of a game where you consistently and reliably see <99% usage, and just stand there, while running fraps for a minute or so, then check your FPS afterwards. Then, OC your cpu, and do the exact same test. Does your FPS rise with the CPU clock? What's the ratio in terms of % change in FPS / % change in CPU clock?

The more that ratio approaches 1, then the more heavily you're CPU BN'd. If there's no increase in FPS, then your CPU isn't the issue. But remember this test ONLY applies to the exact spot in the exact game, at those exact settings. It's not in any way 'universal'. But within the SAME game, it's somewhat reasonable to assume that all instances of <99% usage ... are being caused by the 'same thing'.

Nice bunch of info. I suspect it could be some sort of physx or something not calculated by the gpu cause only nvidia physx is calculated by the gpu. but only time will tell. i will post back once i have the 3770k installed. Also knowing that BF4 uses more cores and so does crysis 3 i might benefit from it.
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post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiceAir View Post

Also knowing that BF4 uses more cores and so does crysis 3 i might benefit from it.

The 3770k has the same number of cores as your current CPU.
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post #15 of 22
Just upgrade to Ivy-E (6 phys cores)
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post #16 of 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

The 3770k has the same number of cores as your current CPU.

I know that it's still 4 cores but hyperthreading might help a bit
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post #17 of 22
The 3770k does have 4 cores, but 8 threads. It is faster than his previous cpu. When will your new 3770k arrive? We want a conclusion to this! tongue.gif
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post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keikei View Post

The 3770k does have 4 cores, but 8 threads. It is faster than his previous cpu. When will your new 3770k arrive? We want a conclusion to this! tongue.gif

I will get it the latest Tuesday. I made this post because i wanted to know what can I do o my current cpu to maybe solve the issue. I know I'm already getting the new CPU but maybe there could be some physical issues but I doubt it
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post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiceAir View Post

I know that it's still 4 cores but hyperthreading might help a bit

I doubt you'll gain anything from the hyper threading. You might even see slightly reduced performance with it enabled. I just posted another example of this negative HT scaling in givmedew's 'How many Cores...' thread, with Far Cry 3 performing better with HT disabled than it did with it enabled. I also tested HT extensively in Crysis 3, which is probably one of the most highly threaded games, and the most likely to show an improvement from HT, but there were no gains.
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post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiceAir View Post

Latest tuesday
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

I doubt you'll gain anything from the hyper threading. You might even see slightly reduced performance with it enabled. I just posted another example of this negative HT scaling in givmedew's 'How many Cores...' thread, with Far Cry 3 performing better with HT disabled than it did with it enabled. I also tested HT extensively in Crysis 3, which is probably one of the most highly threaded games, and the most likely to show an improvement from HT, but there were no gains.

Even if i have to disable HT I still got this cpu for cheap cause it's second hand. I agree with you. You can have a 100 core cpu @ 100GHz on each core and it will only help me so much. The gpu and cpu ,ust keep up with each other.
Edited by DiceAir - 3/22/14 at 3:49pm
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