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[nvidia's blog] GDC - NVIDIA, AMD, Intel Explain How OpenGL Can Unlock 7-15x Performance Gains - Page 7

post #61 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepor View Post

You didn't look through the slides of the presentation this article is about at all, did you? The presentation is not about future stuff... it is a guide for programmers that shows how the your code should look like to use current features of OpenGL and extensions. It is all about stuff that would work on current machines and drivers.

I did read through all 130 slides. 1/2 the sides are about the code 1/4 are graphcs and 1/4 are overview.

My statement was that their charts are stating that they are reducing overhead. They would show things saying 300-500% performance improvement , but once again its on Overhead. There was nothing that said, you will get 4x the framerate or anything along those lines. They push the idea that your getting a 5-17X perfomance increase, so people are like awesome!!!!! , but they dont define how much of that subset actually contributes to the overall performance. Which is why i gave my analogy of TCP overhead performance gains. If the original slow overhead they speak only costs the device 2% of its performance, you would be only getting 1.9% increase in performance... not the whole 5-17X.

If they removed the overhead completely, would things run infinitely faster? This is all just smoke and mirriors until someone actually implements this.

It does bother me that people are reading this thinking they will get 10x better graphics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

I'm now thoroughly amused at the notion of an ASCII miner...

Yeah yeah yeah... i made a typo. =P
Edited by Mrzev - 3/21/14 at 2:58pm
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post #62 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

....Uh?
Code:
Our work with Microsoft on DirectX 12 began more than four years ago with discussions 
about reducing resource overhead. For the past year, NVIDIA has been working closely with 
the DirectX team to deliver a working design and implementation of DX12 at GDC.

with discussions about reducing resource overhead

with discussions about reducing resource overhead

with discussions about reducing resource overhead

with discussions about reducing resource overhead

with discussions about reducing resource overhead

Continue?
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post #63 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrzev View Post

If they removed the overhead completely, would things run infinitely faster? This is all just smoke and mirriors until someone actually implements this.

It does bother me that people are reading this thinking they will get 10x better graphics.

Well, there's Mantle as an implementation and two games that can be used as an example. You can look at benchmarks of those. It's pretty impressive what it does, especially in BF4 multiplayer where the CPU can be pretty overwhelmed and framerates can drop a lot. The most interesting stuff is probably people reporting it runs smoother and seeing good improvement on the highest frametime you'll get (or lowest FPS). That the Intel i3 CPU and AMD CPUs can run the game a lot better is also interesting.

For the OpenGL stuff, we don't know how much of it was ever used. I only played Portal and TF2 on Linux and OpenGL which isn't at all interesting. tongue.gif
post #64 of 98
Intel AMD and Nvidia in the same bed, must mean they want microsoft out of the marriage, only reason to dump dx over OGL,
post #65 of 98
Will Microsoft allow OpenGL to its full potential in their operating systems ? Afaik MS is not known to be a supporter of Open source like things. And why would they want another competitor when DX is already there ?
This comes to my mind because I've read somewhere some PCSX2 developers found out that they weren't able to use some OpenGL commands efficiently. Therefore OpenGL might have been crippled in Windows.
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post #66 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post

Will Microsoft allow OpenGL to its full potential in their operating systems ? Afaik MS is not known to be a supporter of Open source like things. And why would they want another competitor when DX is already there ?
This comes to my mind because I've read somewhere some PCSX2 developers found out that they weren't able to use some OpenGL commands efficiently. Therefore OpenGL might have been crippled in Windows.

You get the OpenGL driver through the graphics card driver. The one you will use will be from either AMD, NVIDIA or Intel. Microsoft doesn't really have anything to do with it.
post #67 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepor View Post

You get the OpenGL driver through the graphics card driver. The one you will use will be from either AMD, NVIDIA or Intel. Microsoft doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Not quite true. The OS has to support the API and MS is known to having OGL problems lets say.

Really this is probably a jab at not only DX12 but a jab at windows in general with it's overhead. The idea that developers will push OGL instead of D3D means there is a higher possibility of other audio APIs. If you start pushing things like that, DX as a whole becomes useless. Take SteamOS, tweak it a bit more (performance), and you have a new Win competitor.

Wait, how's that play out? Well if we can push Win out of the way, XBOne (as some tards coined it) will become a bit out dated. Strap on (Oh yeah!!!) some SteamOS with the PS4 hardware, you've got yourself a general PC that's priced right and plays 10x better (theory). Even OSX benefits from this, as DX is also the big competitor in things like Photoshop. You get the gaming crowd to play ball, OGL flourishes, you start to bring in other crowds.

Basically this is a complete in your face throw that Windows in general isn't doing what developers want because of overhead. Surprised?
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post #68 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepor View Post

Well, there's Mantle as an implementation and two games that can be used as an example. You can look at benchmarks of those. It's pretty impressive what it does, especially in BF4 multiplayer where the CPU can be pretty overwhelmed and framerates can drop a lot. The most interesting stuff is probably people reporting it runs smoother and seeing good improvement on the highest frametime you'll get (or lowest FPS). That the Intel i3 CPU and AMD CPUs can run the game a lot better is also interesting.

For the OpenGL stuff, we don't know how much of it was ever used. I only played Portal and TF2 on Linux and OpenGL which isn't at all interesting. tongue.gif

Yup. Mantel in theory is a step forward and it has shown progress, but only on lower end machines has it really shown some great results. I guess this OpenGL will probably end up doing the same thing where we will see a 50% gain on computers with old CPU's
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post #69 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boinz View Post

Great, now we're arguing semantics now?

Well, when you can't argue facts...
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post #70 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Intel AMD and Nvidia in the same bed, must mean they want microsoft out of the marriage, only reason to dump dx over OGL,

 

All 3 have a vested interest in mobile/low power products. Pushing a focus with OGL means that it translates back to that space.

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