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[nvidia's blog] GDC - NVIDIA, AMD, Intel Explain How OpenGL Can Unlock 7-15x Performance Gains - Page 8

post #71 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Not quite true. The OS has to support the API and MS is known to having OGL problems lets say.

Really this is probably a jab at not only DX12 but a jab at windows in general with it's overhead. The idea that developers will push OGL instead of D3D means there is a higher possibility of other audio APIs. If you start pushing things like that, DX as a whole becomes useless. Take SteamOS, tweak it a bit more (performance), and you have a new Win competitor.

Wait, how's that play out? Well if we can push Win out of the way, XBOne (as some tards coined it) will become a bit out dated. Strap on (Oh yeah!!!) some SteamOS with the PS4 hardware, you've got yourself a general PC that's priced right and plays 10x better (theory). Even OSX benefits from this, as DX is also the big competitor in things like Photoshop. You get the gaming crowd to play ball, OGL flourishes, you start to bring in other crowds.

Basically this is a complete in your face throw that Windows in general isn't doing what developers want because of overhead. Surprised?

I wouldn't put SteamOS on a desktop computer, it's not getting anywhere near any of my desktops. HTPC, maybe. Desktop? Go with a real desktop OS, like Linux Mint.
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post #72 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrzev View Post

Yup. Mantel in theory is a step forward and it has shown progress, but only on lower end machines has it really shown some great results. I guess this OpenGL will probably end up doing the same thing where we will see a 50% gain on computers with old CPU's
I endorse you to read the Mantle BF4 discussion topics as they pretty much all state BF4 multiplayer is now way more smooth due to the minimum framerate being up there all the time. Really some amazing claims made in those threads.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

maybe for me in particular it's smoother because while running Mantle my fps never drops below 60 (only using a 60hz panel) whilst using DX11 i get drops of down to 35-40 in some cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kersoz2003 View Post

If you have 7xxx you may have stuttering , but if you use R9 2xx cards 14.2 mantle solved all issues wink.gif

I use 280X and get + 15 more fps than directx smile.gif here are two videos of my friends using 270X with mantle :





so smotth wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by xutnubu View Post

Mantle feels incredibly smooth for me.

It's better than playing using DirectX with RenderAheadLimit set to 0.

I'd say the game feels 15 to 20fps smoother than DX11.1. So 45fps Mantle = 60fps DX11.1.


Right now I'm playing with a mix of mid and low settings at 1080p, and I'm probably averaging 130fps. Almost never dropping to two digits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by velocityx View Post

what I noticed about mantle, my scores are better with mantle, accuracy, kd, dying less, more in control. It's very smooth and dependable. to the point where I feel like benching fps and drawing graph isnt necessary anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by velocityx View Post

yea it seems bogus to think that youre better here than there but every little stutter or spike or just feeling that the gpu isnt rendering frames fast enough kinda lags the game in direct x, I used to be distracted by that to the point where I would alt tab to check AB graphs and stuff, here, my two 290's are one line on the graph, the game is so smooth to the point where I started thinking 120/144hz panels are a hoax lol because all it matters is fast frame time ;p

anyways, as soon as I got that smoothness in game, I was better at it.

Edited by maarten12100 - 3/22/14 at 6:02am
post #73 of 98
About time they realized they can't milk consumers anymore with Moore's law nearing it's predicted outcome so they decide to remove driver overhead, which they should have done years and years ago, and say "we are working to make this better for you."
    
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post #74 of 98
IS WINDOWS DOOMED? devil.giftongue.gif
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post #75 of 98
I really don't see DX12 competing with OpenGL if most developers start using it. It'll undoubtedly provide better performance and also allow more games to play on Linux more efficiently, thus eliminating the need for Windows altogether. I'm hoping the day when I can install Linux and not depend on Wine comes soon.
post #76 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiTechPixel View Post

I really don't see DX12 competing with OpenGL if most developers start using it. It'll undoubtedly provide better performance and also allow more games to play on Linux more efficiently, thus eliminating the need for Windows altogether. I'm hoping the day when I can install Linux and not depend on Wine comes soon.

That would be nice but will it happen? Maybe some day if Microsoft keeps on same tactics but soon I don't think so. I think developers will keep using DirectX. Linux could be a gaming platform competing Windows but this won't happen any time "soon". I think even when Linux will start emerging and be a real threat for Windows in gaming terms Microsoft will not just stand watch. Would be nice to see some real competition some day though.
post #77 of 98
Its also 7-15x less graphical when Dev's port games to OpenGL like MetroLL which looks horrible in OpenGL because it was ported so poorly or the engine was not designed to work well with OpenGL as iv seen much better looking OpenGL games such as games built on the cube engine so i think more games could use OpenGL but i think they would be better if Dev's use a new engine smile.gif
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post #78 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post

That would be nice but will it happen? Maybe some day if Microsoft keeps on same tactics but soon I don't think so. I think developers will keep using DirectX. Linux could be a gaming platform competing Windows but this won't happen any time "soon". I think even when Linux will start emerging and be a real threat for Windows in gaming terms Microsoft will not just stand watch. Would be nice to see some real competition some day though.

It'll happen. I'm sure of it. If not Linux, then another open-source contender. Windows won't remain a primary OS for gaming for another 10-20 years. That is at least my belief.
post #79 of 98
While I am glad to see this as I am not a Windows user I think this is easier said than done:

Each of the mentioned vendors are producing their own versions of the OpenGL libraries. Are they compatible? Will code built on OSX for Apple's OpenGL implementation work on SteamOS using MesaGL?

Will Nvidia ever fully commit to OpenGL when they are still trying to push CUDA?

This is a positive step by the industry but it's a long road to replacing DirectX as the best GL library.

Is the open source MesaGL even compatible with the OpenGL spec?

What audio system will they use? Etc.

Edit: also, OpenGL isn't actually open source or free. The industry should have a new truly free standard and build around that instead.
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post #80 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

I wouldn't put SteamOS on a desktop computer, it's not getting anywhere near any of my desktops. HTPC, maybe. Desktop? Go with a real desktop OS, like Linux Mint.

Well yeah, you don't really need it. I'm just using that because it's the current big push from Valve. It's Linux under the hood too, so really it should be interchangeable for now. I'd personally use Debian or Fedora myself, either way we'd be getting that boost and attention.

I've always thought it's funny because even though BSD isn't Linux, Sony promotes it and also promotes an alternate opsys. Every time you run PS4 now, you are basically running a modified FreeBSD (or was it OpenBSD? Too lazy to check). So why not start pushing BSD and OGL, there's already a console platform that pretty much mirrors it. Idk, I hate the overhead on Windows quite a bit.

Legacy support is nice, don't get me wrong, though the legacy support Windows has is way too much. Win8 should drop anything without AVX support, personally that would start weaning a lot of hardware possibilities out and allow them to work on a more smaller/specific set of PC hardware compared to what they do now. Which would remove a lot of overhead.
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