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Benchmarks and Answers to: How many cores do I need for a gaming computer? 2, 4, 6, 8? What about Hyper-Threading does it matter? - Page 4

post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

Games don't determine CPU cores used... the engine does.

Isn't that stating the obvious.
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post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

Isn't that stating the obvious.
Then why is the OP testing games?
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post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

Oh really? God an engine mod? Or are you looking at the task manager and seeing the green lines increase over all cores? Task manager lies. On an 8 core system (like me) my CPU peaks at 25% for Skyrim. 25% of 8 = 2. I don't know how many times I've had to point this out.

Yes, task manager definitely lies. If you run a single Prime 95 thread on two cores, it shows both cores at ~50%, and I think you can see it in my HT graph above. It's funny, because I swear in XP it didn't - 1 Prime95 thread would appear as one taskman core at 100%.

The big question is: does anyone know of a reliable CPU usage reader?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

Then why is the OP testing games?

Uhm, because games run on engines...
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post #34 of 54
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post #35 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

Since I had it installed, i just took some benches from Far Cry 3 which might be interesting to compare with yours later. Note that they're very unscientific, just some rough-and-ready manual runs. The CPU is a stock 4770k and the GPU is a 780 Ti, and I lowered the resolution to take the latter out of the equation (as you can see in the GPU load usage graphs). As I said, the runs were manual, but I kept to a very tight route. Each benchmark was only 60 seconds, frames taken by FRAPS. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The main problem with these benchmarks is that I just did them in a random area, not one of my 'known CPU bottleneck' areas (ie. the places where I see it drop below my 60fps when I'm playing normally). As you can see, there is still plenty of difference to be seen, but core scaling might be even more pronounced in the 'known CPU bottleneck' areas, which usually involve a lot of NPCs. Just imagine if the game did it's AI processing on the third thread, for example? Going from 3 to 2 cores could be crippling in a high NPC count/town area, even if you didn't see it so much just driving around the jungle...

4 Cores Enabled:

farcry3_d3d11
Frames: 5840 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 97.333 - Min: 77 - Max: 129

farcry3_d3d11
Frames: 5780 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 96.333 - Min: 78 - Max: 128

(Ran it again to check for any potential catastrophic variation, pretty good for a manual run)

3 Cores Enabled:

farcry3_d3d11
Frames: 4455 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 74.250 - Min: 61 - Max: 91

2 Cores Enabled:

farcry3_d3d11
Frames: 3364 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 56.067 - Min: 45 - Max: 74

1 Core Enabled:

[Far Cry 3 fails to launch]

Bonus Round:

4 Cores Enabled + Hyperthreading:

farcry3_d3d11
Frames: 5227 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 87.117 - Min: 66 - Max: 127

The HT result is perfectly in line with the negative scaling I've seen since my first HT CPU (2600K). It's why you used to see the 2500K score higher than the 2600K in some reviews. This is exactly why I always disable HT.



(these graphs are just for casual interest. Ignore the spikes [menus], tails and numbers [obviously from when I exited the game], just compare the stable parts of the graphs. Also bear in mind that the way task manager reports CPU usage is possibly unreliable)
.

Can you do this test again but with 2 cores HT and 3 cores HT? I want to see if it is a more than 4 core thing or just a HT thing... this helps to determine weather or not HT matters for an i3 or if it is pointless.

I'd love to see some games that are PROVEN I mean ABSOLUTELY PROVEN to scale to 6 or even 8 cores...

This info has been VERY EYE OPENING to me and hopefully to some other people.

I mean is a 6 core extreme processor worth buying? Used ones will obviously be more affordable now that 2011/3 is coming out soon...
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post #36 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

Oh really? God an engine mod? Or are you looking at the task manager and seeing the green lines increase over all cores? Task manager lies. On an 8 core system (like me) my CPU peaks at 25% for Skyrim. 25% of 8 = 2. I don't know how many times I've had to point this out.

Yes, task manager definitely lies. If you run a single Prime 95 thread on two cores, it shows both cores at ~50%, and I think you can see it in my HT graph above. It's funny, because I swear in XP it didn't - 1 Prime95 thread would appear as one taskman core at 100%.

The big question is: does anyone know of a reliable CPU usage reader?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

Then why is the OP testing games?

Uhm, because games run on engines...

You can check this out you might like it http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/tmonitor.html I used to use it when overclock AMD Zosma CPUs to ensure that the turbo was still functioning but it makes a pretty decent CPU usage graph... Then you might also want to use http://www.aida64.com/...

as to the why is the OP testing games... because that is the only way to test an engine... besides engines may actually perform differently in different games but for the most case yes how well the game works with multiple cores is going to depend HIGHLY on the this.

The reason I am doing this is to have a real understanding of how much CPUs scale... By the end I would honestly like to know if there are ANY games at ALL that can utilize HT even if it is HT with only 2 real cores... but better yet I would love to see a game that scales to 4 cores with HT and I would like to see at least one game that can utilize 6 or 8 cores... obviously any game that scales to 4 cores with HT will utilize more than 4 cores...

As far as I can tell the reverse scaling is caused by mis-managing the threads... for example putting to important high use threads on one physical processor and then having another physical processor doing almost nothing... It doesn't seem to be a big enough deal to disable HT however if NO other programs that you run benefit from HT then you should disable HT if you can gain even 100MHz from the heat saved.
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post #37 of 54
Will be nice to see some results, have fun! I know going back and forth between the bios and windows and running tasks gets annoying.

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post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Can you do this test again but with 2 cores HT and 3 cores HT?

Merged with the original results:

4 Cores Enabled + Hyperthreading:
Frames: 5227 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 87.117 - Min: 66 - Max: 127

4 Cores Enabled:
Frames: 5840 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 97.333 - Min: 77 - Max: 129

3 Cores Enabled + Hyperthreading:
Frames: 5061 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 84.350 - Min: 66 - Max: 122

3 Cores Enabled:
Frames: 4455 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 74.250 - Min: 61 - Max: 91

2 Cores Enabled + Hyperthreading:
Frames: 4337 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 72.283 - Min: 58 - Max: 91


2 Cores Enabled:
Frames: 3364 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 56.067 - Min: 45 - Max: 74

Interesting. But even if I had a dual core proc with HT, I'd disable the HT to spare my 2 threaded games any negative scaling (but that's just me with all my top priority games being old and poorly threaded). I think the real moral of the story is that HT threads are still no substitute for true cores.
Edited by Oubadah - 3/21/14 at 6:16am
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Those FC3 benches , what setting you got it at ? Can't be ultra ...
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  • Benchmarks and Answers to: How many cores do I need for a gaming computer? 2, 4, 6, 8? What about Hyper-Threading does it matter?
Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › Benchmarks and Answers to: How many cores do I need for a gaming computer? 2, 4, 6, 8? What about Hyper-Threading does it matter?