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[digitimes] TSMC 20nm wafer production delayed temporarily, but will not affect shipments - Page 2

post #11 of 51
nice, bang out the 20nm full scale production issues on arm chips.
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post #12 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by szeged View Post

Even if it's 28nm I'll

They won't be 28 because they can't increase speed that much to do it. Most people see mediocre speed 28nm Maxwells now on low Watts and they think it's directly proportional to speed on high Watts. It's not. It burns the card on high Watt. It's not a matter of temperature only either.

There is a lot of talk of algorithmic and design advances but that's mostly theoretical:

Those people are brilliant designers. They ALREADY have approximately the most optimal design on 28nm before even TSMC has burned a single waffer. They can increase 5% the performance on design alone sometimes but is it worth the trouble? That's the margin of difference AMD and NV play between them because you know what? They already are optimal in designs, approximately.

They mainly rely on the manufacturer for speed gains. Not that they don't rely on their skill. But their skill is too high to be able to make huge differences on same chip burning tech.
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post #13 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhollywood5 View Post

Like 2 years away. On the other hand, your GM104 is probably 6-8 months away.

Also, I'm actually kinda stoked to hear these 20nm chips are going to Apple, because the iPhone 6 will be my next phone biggrin.gif

Always dangerous to pre-emptively decide that you're going to buy a product that you know nothing about. Insinuiates a sense of crazy brand loyalty and sheeping. Just think "I'm planning on buying a phone around September and I will get what is best for me at my desired price point as I consider everything the competition has to offer" and you will make a lot better decisions with your purchases.
post #14 of 51
maxwell is going to be 28nm.

there is enough performance/watt improvement that Nvidia can release Maxwell 880 on 28nm only. u want a 20nm maxwell? wait 980.

I think GM110 will even be 28nm only, as GM104 is more likely equal or just slightly faster than GK110. Nvidia might need GM110 for the 880.

GM104, assuming it is a 256bit card going to be twice of 750ti only thats about the speed of GK110.
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post #15 of 51
They won't be 28nm. 20nm chips are already burned in unison with Samsung for mass selling. High performance chip yields soon follow. The mediocre performance Maxwells on low power are no proof either.

If you see 28nm significantly higher performance per die size Maxwells on Christmas shopping I will delete my account.
Edited by fateswarm - 3/22/14 at 9:35am
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post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

They won't be 28nm. 20nm chips are already burned in unison with Samsung for mass selling. High performance chip yields soon follow. The mediocre performance Maxwells on low power are no proof either.

If you see 28nm significantly higher performance per die size Maxwells on Christmas shopping I will delete my account.

Uh

750/Ti is not mediocre performance. Both power efficiency and space efficiency are up. 750Ti is higher performance per die size already, you don't have to wait until Christmas.
post #17 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Uh

750/Ti is not mediocre performance. Both power efficiency and space efficiency are up. 750Ti is higher performance per die size already, you don't have to wait until Christmas.

I think he just meant it's a mid range card and that scaling it up to a massive die with thousands of shaders probably won't scale perfectly like everyone is assuming.

I would agree that maxwell will probably be on 20nm.

No idea what to expect with time range though... 20nm cards probably out like szged said in october novemberish, but those might not be the face melter giant die cards that everyone is wanting.
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post #18 of 51
Thread Starter 
I did start the post to point where the 20nm chips are going.
Another point is cost.
Handel Jones says:
Quote:
Will 20nm be a high tech technology node and when will that occur?” he said. “We’re tracking design starts and design completions and we see a few 20nm designs but not a lot. Frankly, whether 20nm will be big or not will really depend on two customers: one is Qualcomm and the other is Apple.” Handel said “there is a significant challenge in getting lower cost at 20nm” compared to 28nm due to a lack of increase in the gate density and the potential yield impact. “We think 20nm, if it does go into volume production, it will not be in 2014. Potentially 2015 and maybe 2016
I nice read.
http://electroiq.com/petes-posts/2014/01/22/high-cost-per-wafer-long-design-cycles-may-delay-20nm-and-beyond/
post #19 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTree View Post

I did start the post to point where the 20nm chips are going.
Another point is cost.
Handel Jones says:
I nice read.
http://electroiq.com/petes-posts/2014/01/22/high-cost-per-wafer-long-design-cycles-may-delay-20nm-and-beyond/

That's before we knew they already cut 20nm wafers as we speak. It was the time of "there will be no 20nm for forever, buy 780s and Titans now".

The ship has sailed. They already have good yields for low performance 20nm and high performance can only be a matter of ~3 months.

The only thing they can do - and they may - is to lie and keep telling us they can't do it. They can, and they obviously would, if AMD wasn't a wounded animal.

We need more competition in the PC market. It's not only small nowadays, it's not only duopolies and monopolies, most of its animals are wounded and play on many fields.
Edited by fateswarm - 3/22/14 at 3:23pm
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post #20 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

I think he just meant it's a mid range card and that scaling it up to a massive die with thousands of shaders probably won't scale perfectly like everyone is assuming.

Having that scaling is the entire point of Maxwell. That's literally their first design goal.
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