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[digitimes] TSMC 20nm wafer production delayed temporarily, but will not affect shipments - Page 3

post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Having that scaling is the entire point of Maxwell. That's literally their first design goal.

I don't believe it. It's a small card that runs on low power. There is no evidence it will be any different than another big 28nm chip.

OK, maybe 5% different, but that's minimal. I consider it inside the margin of error. Or a minor advance.

OK sometimes big design advances happen like Sandy Bridge, mainly via their attempt to make "dynamic Turbo". We got "dynamic Turbo" in GPUs last generation.

Is there any indication we have a big jump? Other than those slow small chips.
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post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukla View Post

Always dangerous to pre-emptively decide that you're going to buy a product that you know nothing about. Insinuiates a sense of crazy brand loyalty and sheeping. Just think "I'm planning on buying a phone around September and I will get what is best for me at my desired price point as I consider everything the competition has to offer" and you will make a lot better decisions with your purchases.

Okay unless the iphone 6 totally disappoints me, I'm pretty sure it will be my next phone. I love my 4S and I really like my brother's 5S as well. I'm not 100% committed to it but I've never owned an apple product that I did not like, yet the majority of android phones I've used leave some to be desired, for me personally. And I like the simplicity of my iTunes library easily syncing with my phone instead of having both an iPod and a phone separately, I love the iCloud syncing between my Macbook and iPhone, and I have money invested in Apple Store apps that keep transferring to each new iPhone. I'd lose all those if I switched to android. Based on how satisfied I've been with every Apple product I've owned (despite their over-pricing) I think it's pretty safe for me to assume I'll also like the 6, which will be released when my 2-year upgrade time comes.

Anyways, about 20nm. The 28nm A7 chip blew away the competition as have most A-series cpus in the past. iPhones have a good track record with cpu performance, and if A8 is the first to get 20nm, then I have no doubts at all.
post #23 of 51
Good they test it on Apple first. I need quality GPU upgrade.
 
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post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

I don't believe it. It's a small card that runs on low power. There is no evidence it will be any different than another big 28nm chip.

OK, maybe 5% different, but that's minimal. I consider it inside the margin of error. Or a minor advance.

OK sometimes big design advances happen like Sandy Bridge, mainly via their attempt to make "dynamic Turbo". We got "dynamic Turbo" in GPUs last generation.

Is there any indication we have a big jump? Other than those slow small chips.

You are wrong. Plain and simple.

This is Maxwell for you:

GTX-750-TI-REVIEW-50.jpg

GTX-750-TI-REVIEW-48.jpg

What is interesting here is the fact that it requires almost half the power of a GTX660... but performs only 22% worse. That, alone, is noteworthy. And it is because performance/power is more or less constant throughout an architecture... which means that, potentially, they could release a GM110 that used the same power consumption of the GTX780... but performed 30-40% more.

Isn't that good enough to make it Maxwell perfectly possible on 20nm? It is. Deffinitely.
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post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

You are wrong. Plain and simple.

This is Maxwell for you:

What is interesting here is the fact that it requires almost half the power of a GTX660... but performs only 22% worse. That, alone, is noteworthy. And it is because performance/power is more or less constant throughout an architecture... which means that, potentially, they could release a GM110 that used the same power consumption of the GTX780... but performed 30-40% more.

Isn't that good enough to make it Maxwell perfectly possible on 20nm? It is. Deffinitely.
thats what makes me believe GM110 will still be 28nm. 20nm is immature it is no way they gonna release a big chip like that on 20nm this early. They also couldnt use GM104 to make it as GTX 880 because it is not much faster than GK110. So they gonna need GM110 as the GK110 replacement.
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post #26 of 51
You are unaware GM107 is half the size of the GK104. They made a tiny chip that can be easily controlled in stability. It would totally fail on bigger dies.

Get over it guys. It's a red herring. They try to manipulate you in thinking "wow, imagine that speedz on a big die" because they have nothing.

Do you seriously think they'd make Titan black and 780 Ti if they had something so good available now? They wait for 20nm stable manufacturing a bit before the end of the year and they need to have something out until then.


And to go even deeper, the same goes for AMD. They are both equally, almost, brilliant designers and they know how to make 28nm sing. Trust me, i.e., if NV can do miracles on 28nm, so can AMD, and since AMD don't, neither can NV.
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post #27 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

You are unaware GM107 is half the size of the GK104. They made a tiny chip that can be easily controlled in stability. It would totally fail on bigger dies.

Get over it guys. It's a red herring. They try to manipulate you in thinking "wow, imagine that speedz on a big die" because they have nothing.

Do you seriously think they'd make Titan black and 780 Ti if they had something so good available now? They wait for 20nm stable manufacturing a bit before the end of the year and they need to have something out until then.


And to go even deeper, the same goes for AMD. They are both equally, almost, brilliant designers and they know how to make 28nm sing. Trust me, i.e., if NV can do miracles on 28nm, so can AMD, and since AMD don't, neither can NV.

You are wrong, like I said before. Maxwell @ 28 has a much higer perf/w and perf/die size than Kepler by a LONG shot.

With that said, think whatever you want. Whatever floats your boat thumb.gif
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post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

You are wrong, like I said before. Maxwell @ 28 has a much higer perf/w and perf/die size than Kepler by a LONG shot.

With that said, think whatever you want. Whatever floats your boat thumb.gif

It's like you try to avoid the argument. Are you talking to yourself about that "whatever floats your boat"?

The chip is tiny. Plain and simple. You can't take a practically phone/tablet chip and make assumptions on GPUs of the calibre of Titan Black.

It's like saying "wow, my mobile plays youtube, imagine it how powerful it'd be if it's only 100 times heavier". It's not that simple.

And again imagine AMD, who is practically within 1 to 5% margin of difference between NVIDIA and their own products. Do you seriously they are incapable of making an "incredibly superior" 28nm chip but NVIDIA can? Wake up.
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post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post


The chip is tiny. Plain and simple. You can't take a practically phone/tablet chip and make assumptions on GPUs of the calibre of Titan Black.

The 750Ti is nowhere in the same league as a phone or tablet chip. It's at least an order of magnitude more powerful in almost every possible category.
Quote:
It's like saying "wow, my mobile plays youtube, imagine it how powerful it'd be if it's only 100 times heavier". It's not that simple.

In a low-stress application such as YouTube, yes you would be correct. A 780Ti and GTX 550Ti will play YouTube at, to the viewer, identical rates. That does not mean the 780Ti is not massively more powerful than the 550ti, but that the test does not reveal their differences.

GPU architectures generally scale more or less linearly with added stream processors/CUDA cores. GPUs and the graphical APIs that rely on them depend almost entirely on massively parallel calculations. The very nature of the computations makes a larger number of execution units profitable.

To quote a past example, the GTX 460 has 336 CUDA cores while the GTX 480 has 480 CUDA cores. That is exactly a 70% ratio. And looking at benchmarks shows that the 460 (clock for clock) is in fact right around 60-70% of the 480's gaming performance. (Though other factors such as clockspeed and Raster units affect this greatly)
Quote:
And again imagine AMD, who is practically within 1 to 5% margin of difference between NVIDIA and their own products. Do you seriously they are incapable of making an "incredibly superior" 28nm chip but NVIDIA can? Wake up.

I don't believe that prava said anything of that sort.
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post #30 of 51
Forget all this 20 nm maxwell nonsense, wheres my Kaveri laptop! thumb.gif
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