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[ExtremeTech] AMD’s next-gen Carrizo APU features leaked, shows greater focus on power efficiency - Page 3

post #21 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadope View Post

As of right now you don't need more than 8 lanes of 3.0 on a APU but since AM3+ and FX are the last of their kind our eyes have turned to FM2+ as a future replacement. This just indicates to me that AMD intends on this chip competing with an i3 as usual. APU's really need to move past that point, and if this is the top of the line chip for FM2+ AMD has nothing to offer the enthusiast market. By that I mean, i5-i7, not the Intel-E market.

It would really make sense though if they have a 3-4 module APU with support for more lanes specifically designed for desktops in the works but I doubt it. I'm pretty sure we would see that on servers first and the roadmaps don't support it.

Honestly if I was an 'AMD-only-enthusiast' I wouldn't even be bothering at the moment. I'd just sit on 990FX/PD and hope that whatever comes after excavator is a completely new and improved architecture that's suitable for enthusiast CPUs.

Personally I have zero interest for carrizo, it looks like it's going to be more of the same at the moment. Probably small per core improvements, DDR4 controller, less power, more features integrated (sound familiar anyone?). It's not something that gets me excited as an enthusiast.

However, the time after EX is what's really interesting. Are we going to see something completely new? Will Bulldozer get yet more variants? Will we see scaled up cat cores? Will AMD drop the big x86 core entirely? Post EX is the interesting time imho when it comes to AMD's CPUs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemer View Post

I just built an HTPC with an AMD PSU A6 at the heart, my dad got a laptop with an A8. Sure my desktop is Intel, but that's the only type of PC I would consider Intel for.

You basically need to buy intel if you want a high quality laptop. Most people these days want to have a laptop for work + browsing/videos. However most people also want it portable/thin and want the battery life to be as long as possible. When you factor those in intel becomes pretty much the only option. Kaveri might be efficient if you think about efficiency when it comes to graphics performance, but it can't match haswell when it comes to conserving power for normal use.

AMD's OEM relations are downright terrible. They can't get premium products out.
 
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post #22 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

I personally think AMD is going to get crushed between Intel on the high side, and ARM on the bottom.

I just can't see buying AMD at all anymore.

Time will tell I guess.....
Lowest power/budget gaming performance and lowest power/ general purpose chip.
Combining the cpu and gpu on the same node on the same die will be a lot better for power consumption than having them seperate. Also Kaveri is beyond thinkable in efficiency just look at the difference in power consumption from 4 to 3GHz. (power is halfed voltage is halfed)

Kaveri is more powerfull that anything ARM can launch within the next 3 years since ARM is focussed on ultra mobile anyways. AMD's Mullins will half power consumption while giving a 30% boost in gpu and a 20% boost in cpu performance and it is already amongst the most powerfull chips so I doubt they'll get crushed there.

(they will however have fierce competition for design wins with Intel since it will only just now get into range of baytrail and Intel will launch it's successor by then of course the main reason for this is that Intel moves to the 14/16nm node which is really good while AMD is stuck with 28nm)

But even though Intel has such a hand with their own fabs AMD is rumoured to tap out a future product on the 14nm XM GloFo node for ultra mobile in Q3 2014. for launch 2015 I suppose but I think these will already have a owner. The reason I think this is because it isn't logical to not push tap out as far to the release date as possible all time you can focus on the design and improving the node cohesion to the design should be taken. It therefore wouldn't suprise me if we see a high end vendor mass stamp these into tablets.

(I sincerely hope AMD will aquire LTE tech sooner rather than later it is something really missing in their portfolio)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

No, I'm saying that AMD recognizes that their x86 server chips can't match the 64bit ARM in performance per watt and that is why they are using ARM in their new server stuff.
That isn't true they will be doing both but ARM is a high growth market that they have to do fairly little for compared to the yields it will most likely generate.
HP Moonshot outfitted with Kaveri will be a big product and should be a push for HSA in the server space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

If Excavator is some sort of miracle that crushes Intel and wins back tons of marketshare for AMD on mobile, desktop, and workstation markets then it would be reasonable to keep making big chips. But so far Bulldozer family has been a failure and each iteration only offered marginal improvement. Even Steamroller, which had higher IPC, only had marginally higher performance because of lower clocks. Judging from the trend since C2D AMD has barely been competing against Intel on the big chip front.

And worst of all, Baytrail is proving to have equal or better CPU performance than Jaguar at a lower TDP, and clearly it's much more popular with OEMs. And Intel wants to put their Atom architectures on the Tick-Tock cadence. Pretty soon AMD won't be competing on the ultra mobile front either. All they'll have is GPUs (in which they lost marketshare over the past quarters), ARM servers, and consoles.
Excavator will clearly be a budget chip especially if those 28nm rumours are true since that would mean all the eff gains are from HDL and arch improvements.
Bulldozer family was a great concept from the beginning and would've succeeded if they had managed a good node, feed the cores, a good fpu layout and most importantly the core limit being breached.

Baytrail indeed matches or slightly beats in cpu perf this is of course a product of Intel's big core legacy. The gpu in Temash is still better though. It is a weird forward looking statement to say AMD will be hit in the mobile space and will have to retreat there.

Actually it is unthinkable with Mullins around the corner pushing them beyond baytrail in efficiency and even if the 14nm Intel ultra mobile chip did surpass it we would still have something that is a far more greater asset than raw performance alone
HSA coming to mobile would be a game changer because there it may actually be put to use good use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post



However, the time after EX is what's really interesting. Are we going to see something completely new? Will Bulldozer get yet more variants? Will we see scaled up cat cores? Will AMD drop the big x86 core entirely? Post EX is the interesting time imho when it comes to AMD's CPUs.

You basically need to buy intel if you want a high quality laptop. Most people these days want to have a laptop for work + browsing/videos. However most people also want it portable/thin and want the battery life to be as long as possible. When you factor those in intel becomes pretty much the only option. Kaveri might be efficient if you think about efficiency when it comes to graphics performance, but it can't match haswell when it comes to conserving power for normal use.

AMD's OEM relations are downright terrible. They can't get premium products out.
I agree interesting times I hope for the full integration of gpu for fpu (yes that is also a great slogan for the tech junkies you heard it here first)

Well Kaveri should infact consume less that a mobile I3 and while the desktop comparisons don't show this is mostly because AMD send out a board that consumes 20W more idle and 50W more under load. If Kaveri scales as good as it did from 4 to 3GHz it could be the ultimate mobile do it all chip.
If so OEMs may use it but I doubt it because they are AMDphobic or bribed.

AMD will deploy Kaveri in the 15W space which means they will either clock it down or they will reduce the graphics block to something like 3 and 1 cpu block.
I personally hope they do it by clocking down because it would make one killer laptop paired with a good screen and battery.
Edited by maarten12100 - 3/23/14 at 2:51am
post #23 of 70
Quote:
it could hurt AMD’s status in the enthusiast community

What status in the enthusiast community?
post #24 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

What status in the enthusiast community?

What Enthusiast community?
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post #25 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

What status in the enthusiast community?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

What Enthusiast community?
Overclockers but when they said the node wouldn't clock well that was lost aswell.
6800k had a whole OC comunnity of it's own.
post #26 of 70
carrizo= kav but with better power consumption, only for laptops? headscratch.gif

Im all for better performance for less power and I understand the focus on mobile processing, soon everyone will have the power of a 4770k and a titan in thin laptop, but this seems counter-productive and they are now constantly play catch up in the performance:power race because maxwell, or with CPU power when looking at core:core performance.

This monkey see monkey do crap from these companies need to stop, why not make something game changing and back it up, instead of using sony tactics and wait for the other company to make a move, then attempt to one up them.
It feels like AMD is putting themselves into this position, they need to do something big that will split them away from the "herd" instead of trying to make up shortcomings, and kav or carrizo with mantle isn't going to cut it.


I'll be waiting AMD for a good kav successor to make my "tag-along box" I don't think carr is it.
     
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post #27 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadmoto View Post

carrizo= kav but with better power consumption, only for laptops? headscratch.gif

Im all for better performance for less power and I understand the focus on mobile processing, soon everyone will have the power of a 4770k and a titan in thin laptop, but this seems counter-productive and they are now constantly play catch up in the performance:power race because maxwell, or with CPU power when looking at core:core performance.

This monkey see monkey do crap from these companies need to stop, why not make something game changing and back it up, instead of using sony tactics and wait for the other company to make a move, then attempt to one up them.
It feels like AMD is putting themselves into this position, they need to do something big that will split them away from the "herd" instead of trying to make up shortcomings, and kav or carrizo with mantle isn't going to cut it.


I'll be waiting AMD for a good kav successor to make my "tag-along box" I don't think carr is it.

If you read the source it clearly states there was no new info on the already scheduled IPC improvements scheduled for Excavator. Also you think it would be wise for AMD to sink their whole R&D budget for better IPC? You think Intel couldn't beat whatever they did? They are not trying to one-up Intel, they are trying to forge a new direction. A direction that has more relevance than a new "big" core.
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post #28 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

You know if kevari laptops are coming?

No idea
post #29 of 70
Intel will keep its dominance on the Desktop, but these APU's are amazing. The A8 beats out the i5 2520m in graphics and in power consumption by near 2X!


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3500m-llano-apu,2959-22.html
post #30 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemer View Post

Intel will keep its dominance on the Desktop, but these APU's are amazing. The A8 beats out the i5 2520m in graphics and in power consumption by near 2X!


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3500m-llano-apu,2959-22.html

Uh, that's Llano vs. Sandy Bridge; both are what, three years old now? Kaveri vs. Haswell is the current comparison, with Carrizo vs. Broadwell next year.
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