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[ExtremeTech] AMD’s next-gen Carrizo APU features leaked, shows greater focus on power efficiency - Page 7

post #61 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

pre-anticipation it is what would make most sense and that is HSA on a hardware level as deep as possible.
It would replace the fpu saving die space for something that already has to have that capability anyways. It sounds like a major win if you ask me. But I can't predict the future that has been proven many times before.

The talk about using GPU's for floating point loads in "everything" has been around for a while now. Was all the rage already back in 2009 and was supposed to happen in immediate future. If I remember correct it was even argument in some marketing materials for selling business laptops with discrete GPU's - and while few select programs made use of these GPU's for some features the general revolution has not happened half a decade later. HSA is all great on paper but it has remained mostly talk for all practical purposes so far regardless of being promised since the hype leading to pile-driver flop - all that talk how it's better than Thubans were, etc. So I am remaining skeptical about general programs starting to make use of the on die GPU part for floating point loads. I believe when I see it and until that point it's just marketing talk in my opinion. I mean don't get me wrong - it's a great idea and I would love to see it happen, however, in practical real world applications that are not specifically compiled to do that it sounds a bit too dreamy scenario to happen in immediate foreseeable future just to have a magic decoder appear out of blue in these CPU's/APU's that could make it happen "automagically".
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post #62 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

The talk about using GPU's for floating point loads in "everything" has been around for a while now. Was all the rage already back in 2009 and was supposed to happen in immediate future. If I remember correct it was even argument in some marketing materials for selling business laptops with discrete GPU's - and while few select programs made use of these GPU's for some features the general revolution has not happened half a decade later. HSA is all great on paper but it has remained mostly talk for all practical purposes so far regardless of being promised since the hype leading to pile-driver flop - all that talk how it's better than Thubans were, etc. So I am remaining skeptical about general programs starting to make use of the on die GPU part for floating point loads. I believe when I see it and until that point it's just marketing talk in my opinion. I mean don't get me wrong - it's a great idea and I would love to see it happen, however, in practical real world applications that are not specifically compiled to do that it sounds a bit too dreamy scenario to happen in immediate foreseeable future just to have a magic decoder appear out of blue in these CPU's/APU's that could make it happen "automagically".
I think the chances are higher now for it to happen. Kaveri is showing some definite potential that honestly didn't exist in 2009. Not to mention physically we aren't breaking down any barriers so no we see software making up the difference, as what we are seeing with Mantle.
post #63 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

I think the chances are higher now for it to happen. Kaveri is showing some definite potential that honestly didn't exist in 2009. Not to mention physically we aren't breaking down any barriers so no we see software making up the difference, as what we are seeing with Mantle.
I do not believe the chances are any higher than they were back in 2009. For "revolution" to happen you would need either (1) drop in replacement into existing code without having to rewrite the code - ideally just a recompile with the right keyword or (2) damn smart hardware magic that is capable of turning your currently existing program into properly multithreaded and utilizing GPU for floating point loads on the fly. CUDA, OpenCL and other options have existed and continue to exist but vast majority of software out there is not making use of these options. Even with option (1) where all it would take would be recompile with the right key you would not get particularly impressive coverage most likely. AMD is wading in correct direction however, pushing for proper HSA integration into compilers but as far as I understand it's still in early stages and can require rewriting chunks of ones code base. Don't quote me on that though, I'm not a C++ and compiled code guy, I'm just using Python and FORTRAN for my relatively narrow focus on crunching some numbers. Would love to see what my GPU's can do if I could just find a nice drop in plugin, for example, for SciPy or NumPy. I would even be up for some code rewrite as long as it's not excessive.

It's good idea and so on but as soon as it starts taking developer effort the probability of it getting utilized starts to drop off fast.
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post #64 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I thought Kaveri mobile was always supposed to come around May/early June just like trinity ('12)and richland ('13).

Yep, just in time to be dethroned by Broadwell during the holiday season... Carrizo may or may not be able to compete with Broadwell if it were available this winter but Kaveri has no chance in hell... It is going to be a repeat of Q4 2013 again this year...
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post #65 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Yep, just in time to be dethroned by Broadwell during the holiday season... Carrizo may or may not be able to compete with Broadwell if it were available this winter but Kaveri has no chance in hell... It is going to be a repeat of Q4 2013 again this year...

If Kaveri A10 mobile has the graphics capablilties of the desktop A10 then it will have a good shot of being a pretty good budget gaming platform.

Still, it'd be hard to find a APU laptop with a decent screen at a decent price.

If intel can sqeeze in more EUs in their i3s and i5s and beat AMD in terms of graphics, then AMD get beat in both mobile and desktop (unlocked Pentium).
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post #66 of 70
Hah, "focus on power efficiency". You can't do that if you aren't faster on "regular efficiency". This is because the whole bonanza of Intel with "power efficiency" has nothing to do with low level design. It's just a marketing decision to target mobiles and tables and maybe laptops down the road. They just do minor tweaks in hardware and just lower clocks. Tada! "power efficient".

i.e. "power efficient" = "we made it run slower with slight modifications and lower clocks, nothing we can't reverse next version like that".

i.e. if you are slower, you won't be as well power efficient either.



Ah, and what some desktop overclockers here say about "haswell/ivy not clocking well because of power efficiency goals" is totally or for the most part false. This is because the further we go towards the 10nm scale, the more it's harder to deviate from factory Voltage. This is well demonstrated by various experts, and there is even an NVIDIA video showing it explicitly. It has nothing to do with those power related designs, it's mainly about shrinking, which is inevitable.
Edited by fateswarm - 3/26/14 at 4:02am
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post #67 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Hah, "focus on power efficiency". You can't do that if you aren't faster on "regular efficiency". This is because the whole bonanza of Intel with "power efficiency" has nothing to do with low level design. It's just a marketing decision to target mobiles and tables and maybe laptops down the road. They just do minor tweaks in hardware and just lower clocks. Tada! "power efficient".

i.e. "power efficient" = "we made it run slower with slight modifications and lower clocks, nothing we can't reverse next version like that".

i.e. if you are slower, you won't be as well power efficient either.



Ah, and what some desktop overclockers here say about "haswell/ivy not clocking well because of power efficiency goals" is totally or for the most part false. This is because the further we go towards the 10nm scale, the more it's harder to deviate from factory Voltage. This is well demonstrated by various experts, and there is even an NVIDIA video showing it explicitly. It has nothing to do with those power related designs, it's mainly about shrinking, which is inevitable.
You jumped right over HSA with that one.
post #68 of 70
To be fair HSA isn't wide spread yet. Few people understand it, let alone know what it is. Most people haven't seen the benefits of HSA on low power APU's because it's just not available outside of a few image editing programs. When it hits games then people will talk. But that's not happening until at least 2015 since all these game engines have to be recompiled to make use of HSA, and I haven't heard of any one doing that yet.
post #69 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCrow View Post

To be fair HSA isn't wide spread yet. Few people understand it, let alone know what it is. Most people haven't seen the benefits of HSA on low power APU's because it's just not available outside of a few image editing programs. When it hits games then people will talk. But that's not happening until at least 2015 since all these game engines have to be recompiled to make use of HSA, and I haven't heard of any one doing that yet.
Actually I think Mantle might be doing some of that already, obviously with the 7850K. But there is a huge line up of software having availability to HSA when you consider Java is adding support for 2015. A lot of possibilities, just gotta see what comes of it.
post #70 of 70
I im sure HARDOCP did a 2.0 vs 3.0 benchmark test and the results were pretty much similar. zgjULx
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