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[Pando] Extent of Google/Apple's Wage & Job Fixing "Cartel" Exposed - Page 4

post #31 of 72
Ultimately we as consumers decide everything. We spend money the companies want and need. But all we want is cheaper and more. Everything goes to China and regular companies almost cannot survive with employees in the 3rd world countries.

Kartels are a bad thing overal. Bad for the price of the products and as we can see here also for wages.

But again; we decide. Everyone on here says "oh look how horrible" then go off and use Google, gmail, go buy an Iphone, buy something in the app-store, etc. We feed the beast ourselves. Lets not act like we give a. *insert bad word here*. As we simply do not.
 
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post #32 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel View Post

Ultimately we as consumers decide everything. We spend money the companies want and need. But all we want is cheaper and more. Everything goes to China and regular companies almost cannot survive with employees in the 3rd world countries.

Kartels are a bad thing overal. Bad for the price of the products and as we can see here also for wages.

But again; we decide. Everyone on here says "oh look how horrible" then go off and use Google, gmail, go buy an Iphone, buy something in the app-store, etc. We feed the beast ourselves. Lets not act like we give a. *insert bad word here*. As we simply do not.

Bingo.
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post #33 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel View Post

Ultimately we as consumers decide everything. We spend money the companies want and need. But all we want is cheaper and more. Everything goes to China and regular companies almost cannot survive with employees in the 3rd world countries.

Kartels are a bad thing overal. Bad for the price of the products and as we can see here also for wages.

But again; we decide. Everyone on here says "oh look how horrible" then go off and use Google, gmail, go buy an Iphone, buy something in the app-store, etc. We feed the beast ourselves. Lets not act like we give a. *insert bad word here*. As we simply do not.

Yup, nothing is worse than these hypocrites who complain the loudest about "evil corporations" and never do a damn thing about it. They don't go help fund a new business through kickstarter, gofundme, etc. They complain about paying Microsoft for Office when "all I do is basic things" yet there's LibreOffice. They complain that MS and Apple and Google are spying on them through their OSes yet they won't use a Linux distro or a BSD. The worst part is they say one thing yet continue to cave in to the producers controls because "they have no choice". The consumer has failed if they actually cared about the things they complain about they'd do something about it but they don't. Capitalism is a system that requires more responsibility out of the consumer than others and sadly the consumer slacked off. Finally, as in a democracy, a small well organized and motivated group will always beat a large disjointed one every time. Many times that small group will also use the majority to beat other small groups.

Now, on the topic at hand:
I guess this is why someone I knew who worked for Sony was given a lower paying offer for the a higher position in Apple.
     
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post #34 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel View Post

Ultimately we as consumers decide everything. We spend money the companies want and need. But all we want is cheaper and more. Everything goes to China and regular companies almost cannot survive with employees in the 3rd world countries.

Kartels are a bad thing overal. Bad for the price of the products and as we can see here also for wages.

But again; we decide. Everyone on here says "oh look how horrible" then go off and use Google, gmail, go buy an Iphone, buy something in the app-store, etc. We feed the beast ourselves. Lets not act like we give a. *insert bad word here*. As we simply do not.

Yup, nothing is worse than these hypocrites who complain the loudest about "evil corporations" and never do a damn thing about it. They don't go help fund a new business through kickstarter, gofundme, etc. They complain about paying Microsoft for Office when "all I do is basic things" yet there's LibreOffice. They complain that MS and Apple and Google are spying on them through their OSes yet they won't use a Linux distro or a BSD. The worst part is they say one thing yet continue to cave in to the producers controls because "they have no choice". The consumer has failed if they actually cared about the things they complain about they'd do something about it but they don't. Capitalism is a system that requires more responsibility out of the consumer than others and sadly the consumer slacked off. Finally, as in a democracy, a small well organized and motivated group will always beat a large disjointed one every time. Many times that small group will also use the majority to beat other small groups.

Now, on the topic at hand:
I guess this is why someone I knew who worked for Sony was given a lower paying offer for the a higher position in Apple.

This is going to be one of the few times I disagree with what you're saying.

You're reducing a more complex problem to a soundbite are you a politician?
 
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post #35 of 72
*Takes off flame suit, sticks out man chest*

All they were doing is what Unions do "legally", fixing salaries, etc, etc. Actually, no, they really weren't fixing salaries; they more or less just stopped giving inflated bonuses to employees of the other team, in order to bribe them over.

It wasn't uncommon for someone like Google or Apple to see talent on the other side and want that. In order to get that they would throw a truck-ton of cash at that person, and buy them from their current employer.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with not wanting to hire a high level employee of your competition. The last thing you need as a business is to have that new employee of yours have an "idea" for a product/service, and down the road a few hundred million you find out it wasn't his idea at all. It was something he "stole" from his previous employer.

EDIT:

You want to talk about wage fixing, look at the Federal Minimum Wage! For Christ's sake, we have employers like McDonalds going to Capital Hill to lobby AGAINST increasing minimum wages, to keep their operating costs low.

This thing with Google is impacting people that make an easy 6 figures with their salary, and more directed towards fat recruitment bonuses. Not the minimum wage, can't get by, employee that most companies try and keep down.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 3/24/14 at 10:22am
    
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post #36 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dnic41 View Post

Simple. Publicly traded companies need to die. This bow down and do everything for the sake of the shareholder needs to stop.

What is wrong with a healthy profit? Simple, never ending greed.

It's not even close to just a bow down to shareholders. If it was you would see companies pumped up and then left to die while the shareholders took their profit. This type of stuff happened in the 20's and 30's and there are regulations around it. It's similar to a checks and balances of the government. Execs want to make shareholders happy, but also want to have a job. Thats why there is a board of directors that is not completely shareholder based. It allows for them to make decisions that align with shareholder and company interests. Companies are here simple to make money, how they deal with/support their customers is up to them. There are plenty of crappy companies when it comes to CS and there are also tons of good ones. It really depends how the company values its reputation over its margins.
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post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

It really depends how the company values its reputation over its margins.

That is what true free market capitalism is summed up in a single sentence. Excellently stated. This does assume that treating people well and making money are mutually exclusive, which I disagree with in some instances, but I see your point. I will make one minor addition:

It really depends how the company values its customers and employees over its margins.
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post #38 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

That is what true free market capitalism is summed up in a single sentence. Excellently stated. This does assume that treating people well and making money are mutually exclusive, which I disagree with in some instances, but I see your point. I will make one minor addition:

It really depends how the company values its customers and employees over its margins.

I like your edit, I should have included employees. I just don't like how people jump on this bandwagon that companies answer only to shareholders. Ideally their goal is to increase shareholder value but not at the expense of the company as a whole. Its like people forget that a companies board is usually comprised of employees, shareholders and sometimes outside experts in the industry. There is a balance that is struck. Otherwise you would have companies do actions that boost profits and revenues in the short term to pump the stock up in price meanwhile it cannot sustain it. Then the public buys in and drives it up further and the shareholders then sell off at the high while the public rides the collapse to the bottom.
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post #39 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dnic41 View Post

Simple. Publicly traded companies need to die. This bow down and do everything for the sake of the shareholder needs to stop.

What is wrong with a healthy profit? Simple, never ending greed.

doh.gif

The problem isn't the company, but the laws in which they have to be ran under. The laws that were passed by our Government, they are wrong, and essentially state that a Corporation must protect Shareholder interests at pretty much any cost.

My company is a Corporation, we are currently fighting to change to a Partnership. Part of doing this is dealing with a full audit by the tax authorities, to make sure we aren't hiding anything. We just want to get to a structure that allows us a little more freedom with our business, instead of having to follow absolutely insane laws/rules.

A great example of a pain in the ass, although small, is accounting for purchases. If a purchase is $200 or greater we have to break it down in the books, line item by line item. How does this become a pain in the ass? Well..

Let's say we send in a fleet vehicle for service, lets say that service is $600 and was various parts. We have to pay our people to enter into the books EVERY line item for the entire order. Instead of that person just entering in "$600" under vehicle maintenance with the invoice number, and filing the invoice into our records they have to break it down...

Oil Filter -
Bolts -
Labor -
Oil -
Belt A
Belt B
Belt C

Or however it is broken down on the invoice from the shop. We already have to keep the detailed invoice in our permanent records, but we have to enter line item by line item. The Government, as a Corporation, is so permanently attached to your ass, it makes operations difficult at times. So situations are created of having these "small" rules, but when you have 15,000 small rules to follow, things get difficult. Carrying a single brick isn't a big deal, but when you have to carry a whole bunch of those little bricks, it gets heavy.

What I am getting at is people are so quick to come down on Corporations as evil, when in a lot of situations they are just following the laws and rules they have to follow. Obviously you have cases of extreme greed that were illegal, like predatory lending, but in scale those were rare situations.

Look at the big financial crash, that was an issue of greed and new laws by the Government.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 3/24/14 at 11:09am
    
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post #40 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

doh.gif

The problem isn't the company, but the laws in which they have to be ran under. The laws that were passed by our Government, they are wrong, and essentially state that a Corporation must protect Shareholder interests at pretty much any cost.

Yes and no. Its true that management decisions need to look to increase shareholder value but not at the cost of the company. The value the company gives to its employees/Costumers is what separates an Apple from a Dell. Apple prides itself on its relationship with its consumers and they have hands down some of the best support in the world, add onto that they treat their employees very well from what I have read. Apple knows that treating employees well and customers drives better margins for them in the long run. However this doesn't always work, a straight hardware company like a widget producer may be better off with lower CS and employee satisfaction and just concentrate on quality of product and increased manufacturing capabilities to drive margins. Its so subjective to the industry and company that all of us pretending we know whats going on is silly.

Edit: Take a look at starbucks. Their coffee is not worth the price, but it is normally the best experience for getting coffee from any major chain. I would care to wager they could pump up the stock easily but not buying fair trade coffee, not providing the level of benefits to employees and cutting other corners. However starbucks has a reputation they hold and they believe that reputation will provide better margins in the future.

Increasing shareholder value is a priority, how they do that is up to the company. It is not the problem its how it's handled that matters.
Edited by b.walker36 - 3/24/14 at 11:10am
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