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[pcper] NVIDIA Talks DX12, DX11 Efficiency Improvements - Page 14

post #131 of 203
I didn't intend for the 280X OC vs. Titan downclocked to represent Titan vs. 290X. All it's supposed to be is about the same amount of graphical processing power for the system to use. I just wanted to have similar GPU performance on both NV and AMD so that I could make CPU overhead comparisons.

And you're still missing the entire point and focusing on the unit count of the mantle score.

It's all about the DX11 CPU overhead. With DX11 the NV system had more units, and yet had a huge advantage over the AMD system.
 
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post #132 of 203
my own testing with the benchmark shows that unit count is near impossible to control
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post #133 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

my own testing with the benchmark shows that unit count is near impossible to control

It is, and with the normal preset settings (follow, attract etc.) it actually does make a huge difference in the result fps.

But if you try the sort of custom scenario I linked above it wont have a huge effect on the resulting fps. Sounds weird I know but that's what happens.
 
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post #134 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

If you've got better data, I'd love to see it. As it stands now, I'll take what I can get, with acknowledgements for the imperfections. How does shooting down people who are trying to provide data and replacing it with nothing help anyone?

He is providing data and I am scrutinizing the method he used to collect said data, I am not "shooting down" anyone. It is very relevant to the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

And you're still missing the entire point and focusing on the unit count of the mantle score.

.

I am not missing it, check my earlier posts, I acknowledged you made a fair argument on overhead. The problem is that you are trying to quantify it when there are uncontrolled variables (eg it is arbitrary/not proven that your card test cases have very similar or equal processing power for SS).
Edited by Kuivamaa - 3/24/14 at 7:26am
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post #135 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

He is providing data and I am scrutinizing the method he used to collect said data, I am not "shooting down" anyone. It is very relevant to the topic.

Then I assume you agree with my conclusion about DX11?

With similar amount of GPU power in DX11 Nvidia has much, much lower CPU overhead. The DX11 results don't have the unit count issue you're clinging to...
 
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post #136 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Then I assume you agree with my conclusion about DX11?

With similar amount of GPU power in DX11 Nvidia has much, much lower CPU overhead. The DX11 results don't have the unit count issue you're clinging to...

What?

GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series
CPU: GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Physical Cores: 4
Logical Cores: 8
Physical Memory: 8463237120
Allocatable Memory: 140737488224256
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: DirectX
Scenario: ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Off
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 14330

Average FPS: 39.80
Average Unit Count: 4316
Maximum Unit Count: 5536
Average Batches/MS: 620.19
Maximum Batches/MS: 1482.41
Average Batch Count: 17524
Maximum Batch Count: 147165

A stronger card on the moment that dx11 doesnt bottleneck is gonna give you higher average. And the benchmark is not consinstent because the route of the spaceship is not standard. Sometimes an enemy spaceship can hit you and throw you so away so when you turn you have like 8 fps sometimes you avoid completely the swarm of spaceships. You really struggle to prove that pr graphs are real using pure excuses.The fact that you have more units is pure BS. Yes you have but you see them all the time? Rendering out of you FoV is not the same as seeing 5k units in front of you
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post #137 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Then I assume you agree with my conclusion about DX11?

With similar amount of GPU power in DX11 Nvidia has much, much lower CPU overhead. The DX11 results don't have the unit count issue you're clinging to...

Most tests that I've seen (that somewhat touched the issue of DX11 overhead) agree that kepler has lower CPU overhead than GCN (significant difference). The exact amount is unclear though. I never clinged on anything, the way you clocked the cards the 280X might actually be stronger for the test in hand (SS) and the overhead even more in favor of Titan. Or it actually may be weaker skewing the results. But we do not know that, and that's a problem
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post #138 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

What?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series
CPU: GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Physical Cores: 4
Logical Cores: 8
Physical Memory: 8463237120
Allocatable Memory: 140737488224256
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: DirectX
Scenario: ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Off
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 14330

Average FPS: 39.80
Average Unit Count: 4316
Maximum Unit Count: 5536
Average Batches/MS: 620.19
Maximum Batches/MS: 1482.41
Average Batch Count: 17524
Maximum Batch Count: 147165

A stronger card on the moment that dx11 doesnt bottleneck is gonna give you higher average. And the benchmark is not consinstent because the route of the spaceship is not standard. Sometimes an enemy spaceship can hit you and throw you so away so when you turn you have like 8 fps sometimes you avoid completely the swarm of spaceships. You really struggle to prove that pr graphs are real using pure excuses.

I'm using a custom scenario that fixes the camera to a single point and always spawns the same ships from the same places at the same time.

You're just using the stock follow preset...
Edited by Alatar - 3/24/14 at 7:35am
 
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post #139 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

You really struggle to prove that pr graphs are real using pure excuses.

And you seem dedicated to proving that nothing that Nvidia does can be good. Why? What possible benefit could it have to those who follow the tech market?
post #140 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Most tests that I've seen (that somewhat touched the issue of DX11 overhead) agree that kepler has 0lower CPU overhead than GCN (significant difference). The exact amount is unclear though. I never clinged on anything, the way you clocked the cards the 280X might actually be stronger for the test in hand (SS) and the overhead even more in favor of Titan. Or it actually may be weaker skewing the results. But we do not know that, and that's a problem

And the issue is that there's really no way for me to test this and be 100% accurate at the same time.

They do have about the same GPU power. With the end result being so clear it doesn't really matter if SS performs a bit better on NV or AMD compared to firestrike.

My entire point was about DX11 CPU overhead, I just threw mantle there for comparisons sake, if I knew it would be the focus of the discussion here I would have run it a couple of extra times to get a better unit count...

But anyway the the point here is that the DX11 vs. DX11 scenario gives you good overall picture. Not accurate down to 0.1 fps but a good general idea. The difference is so clear that the conclusion is justified.
 
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