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[pcper] NVIDIA Talks DX12, DX11 Efficiency Improvements - Page 9

post #81 of 203
I keep wondering, if there is improvement inside optimizing the driver = What happen AMD see this, decide to do the same thing then add mantle into the equation? biggrin.gif

it seems to me Nvidia is taking a lot of heat from Mantle. They cant wait 2 years for DirectX12.
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post #82 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

oh come on now @maarten12100 we know both companies do those types of things all the time. Like 58% performance increase with 3930k & 2x 290x?

Iv'e also seen some really amazing benchmarks come out of Star Swarm, when comparing DX11 to Mantle.
Well of course they do but there results are false since both configs should completely poop themselves when trying to do those runs on DX11 since it is supposed to be one of the scenarios hard on the cpu.

What real use is Mantle if the cpu bottleneck isn't there to begin with. The Mantle gains are very real but mostly cpu gains.
The Mantle BF4 multiplayer gains are actually in the 100% range users claiming from ~60 to 120 constant in multilpayer where the cpu was necking them all the time. This phenomenon is very real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Based on that graph GTX780 Ti DX11 is about as fast a 290X Mantle in Star Swarm. Is that true? I have seen people get huge improvements in AMD side but Nvidia fixed it with just some DX11 API hack?
Well in terms of graphics power the 780Ti and 290X are very alike with the 780Ti being a little bit faster. So in DX with the same processor they should perform roughly equal.
post #83 of 203
using Deferred contexts (Requires win8) shows measurable gains in Star Swarm... If I had to guess, people on win8.1 will benefit most from these DX11 tweaks. Nvidia just isn't going to come out & say that due to how much the lemmings hate win 8.1
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post #84 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

using Deferred contexts (Requires win8) shows measurable gains in Star Swarm... If I had to guess, people on win8.1 will benefit most from these DX11 tweaks. Nvidia just isn't going to come out & say that due to how much the lemmings hate win 8.1

After throwing classic shell on I'm in love with 8.1. Because it's performance operates so on the level of hardware unlike 7 I see performance gains everywhere. HECK! If you accidentally corrupt your Windows Default Display Driver it won't operate like 7 or old usually does. The GPU is soo integral to the operations of the 8.1 it's not even funny.
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post #85 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

The driver they are using is not released yet so we don't have any confirmation from real users to go by.

The performance is very close even before that Magical driver. After that 780 Ti beats Mantle at its best benchmark.
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post #86 of 203
OpenGL has practically all the advantage of Mantle in terms of faster calls to avoid the CPU calling them. It was submitted by AMD in 2011!

It's an ARB, i.e. a feature that is about to be in next version and it's already part of most drivers.

My previous post in here has details for the nerds.


It's an interesting story because AMD submitted it. I'm looking at Microsoft as the main culprit here. OpenGL being more supported would avoid this kerfuffle. It would be multiplatform and it would have NVIDIA on board.
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post #87 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

The performance is very close even before that Magical driver. After that 780 Ti beats Mantle at its best benchmark.

Technically this kinda silly. DX11 won't improve core usage, yeah NVidia has got better driver designers, but that's just it. You can't get away pairing a slower processors and expecting Mantle gains from NVidia drivers under D11. These theoretical are only for the best of the best processors, slap in an i3 and a 780ti ... DEATH!
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post #88 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chobbit View Post

Great and all and I'll be happy to see this but am I the only one who thinks why now?

Why has Nvidia just discovered these new ways of getting massive boosts from simple driver updates after AMD just releases a way of showing Nvidia up? I just feel we could have all enjoy much better performance alot earlier, but Nvidia just holds back what they really can offer us and just release what they have to. This if anything is great for their pockets so they can keep pushing out slightly improved products to stay that little bit ahead, but is bad for developments and pushing what games can provide.

I suppose we should be happy though

Extremely late to the party, but excellent post nonetheless.

+rep

Another thing that's bothering me a little bit with all of this is that Microsoft (or was it NVIDIA?), is claiming that they've been working on Direct3D 12 for years now (4 IIRC), which IMO has to be complete BS.

If that was really the case, then why did they release and hype Direct3D 11.2? just for tiled resources? really?, IMO they were completely content with Direct3D's place in the API space, before Mantle of course. Another point to that is: Just after Mantle was announced, we heard from John Carmack and Tim Sweeney, basically saying that Mantle was a bad idea, but they somehow missed to mention that Direct3D 12 was coming with all of these improvements? that argument would have completely destroyed AMD's technical direction with Mantle.

I don't think developers would have pushed this hard for a close to the metal API from NVIDIA or AMD knowing Microsoft was working on Direct3D 12, it simply doesn't add up.

Now, with that said.

I really like the direction the gaming development community is headed, this will translate into better gaming experiences for all of us, and we have to give Mantle lots of credit for this IMO (even if it dies in the coming months [which will not happen]), just as we would have to give NVIDIA lots of credit if G-Sync becomes the standard for monitors/TVs.
Edited by SlackerITGuy - 3/23/14 at 6:02pm
post #89 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerITGuy View Post

Extremely late to the party, but excellent post nonetheless.

+rep

Another thing that's bothering me a little bit with all of this is that Microsoft (or was it NVIDIA?), is claiming that they've been working on Direct3D 12 for years now (4 IIRC), which IMO has to be complete BS.

If that was really the case, then why did they release and hype Direct3D 11.2? just for tiled resources? really?, IMO they were completely content with Direct3D's place in the API space, before Mantle of course. Another point to that is: Just after Mantle was announced, we heard from John Carmack and Tim Sweeney, basically saying that Mantle was a bad idea, but they somehow missed to mention that Direct3D 12 was coming with all of these improvements? that argument would have completely destroyed AMD's technical direction with Mantle.

I don't think developers would have pushed this hard for a close to the metal API from NVIDIA or AMD knowing Microsoft was working on Direct3D 12, it simply doesn't add up.

Now, with that said.

I really like the direction the gaming development community is headed, this will translate into better gaming experiences for everyone of us, and we have to give Mantle lots of credit for this IMO (even if it dies in the coming months [which will not happen]), just as we would have to give NVIDIA lots of credit if G-Sync becomes the standard for monitors/TVs.

it's not BS, they're just counting back to when DX11 was finished and some guy had the idea "we should make DX12 now!" tongue.gif

Also: Mantle (or mantle-like multi-GPU performance) + G-sync do want.

Now nvidia just needs a trueaudio-like competitor. Would really love to see that.
Edited by Craftyman - 3/23/14 at 6:06pm
    
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post #90 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerITGuy View Post

Another thing that's bothering me a little bit with all of this is that Microsoft (or was it NVIDIA?), is claiming that they've been working on Direct3D 12 for years now (4 IIRC), which IMO has to be complete BS.

Nobody cares about innovation. That's why. Only their scientists.

It's cute *in a good way, that if you research this thing a bit you notice AMD and NVIDIA and Intel and Qualcomm scientists had been working in unison to create extensions for OpenGL (and they will be part of the next version, already operational in current drivers) that do basically all those "CPU less used" advantages of Mantle.

The culprit here is probably Microsoft and their insistence in seeing OpenGL die.

There is nothing to gain from it for the rest of us. It can be used by everyone without mama Microsoft dictating its direction.

It's like debating if we want HTML or flash.
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