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post #41 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post


I took a look at that calculator - if i use my approximate stats:

stock = 3700mhz @1.08vcore

oc = 4800mhz @1.4vcore

tdp utilization = 90%

Then this says 183w?

Again, the proof is in the pudding....the meter measuring what is coming outta the wall is showing that that amount of wattage is simply not "coming out of the wall". For the CPU to use it, it must get there from somewhere. I can not show a 116 watt increase over the 84 watt TDP we see at stock settings.

No, you don't get to "pick" a stock voltage....the stock voltage is what Intel says it is .,....yes, you can certainly undervolt but that will change the TDP.

Go back to the calculator and put in 3500 and 1.25 as your OC, you get the expected TDP of 84 watts. Change the intel stock voltage to 1.08 and at stock speed your TDP is an obviously wrong 113 watts.
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post #42 of 47
Quote:

No, you don't get to "pick" a stock voltage....the stock voltage is what Intel says it is .,....yes, you can certainly undervolt but that will change the TDP.

Go back to the calculator and put in 3500 and 1.25 as your OC, you get the expected TDP of 84 watts. Change the intel stock voltage to 1.08 and at stock speed your TDP is an obviously wrong 113 watts.

Stock voltage varies from below 1.00v to above 1.2v. Most are in between - my chip is quite normal at 1.08vcore @3700mhz 4-core turbo.

The stock voltage >IS< what intel says it is - but again, this is a large range - 84w is NOT an estimated power number. 84w is a somewhat conservative TURBO+IGPU POWER LIMIT, which is quite eye opening i think when you look at it that way - it's why it's the same number on i5 and i7 for example when i7 consumes more power, and why it's the same cross-chip when some use below 1.00v and others use over 1.20v - they have significantly different power consumption.


Quote:
Again, the proof is in the pudding....the meter measuring what is coming outta the wall is showing that that amount of wattage is simply not "coming out of the wall". For the CPU to use it, it must get there from somewhere. I can not show a 116 watt increase over the 84 watt TDP we see at stock settings.

I can show you way more wattage than that
Quote:
x264 pass 2 = ~116w
Peak Vcore = 1.080
Hottest core = 51c

LinX 0.6.5 with 6144 memory entered = ~170w (~192 GFlops)
Peak Vcore = 1.092
Hottest core = 78c

"It's at the wall for the entire system.

System:

4670k
2x4GB ram
7950
one five year old mechanical hard drive (was always spun up)
one SSD
two 120mm pwm fans
four 140mm fans
seasonic ss-660xp 600w psu (rated platinum)"

Here's a test, running full load at the same voltage with x264 vs avx2 linpack. See these kinds of power differences? This is >adding< 64w to total system power consumption - below 1.1vcore - by simply changing how you are fully loading the CPU from one of the better available video encoders (x264) to avx2 Linpack approaching 200gflops.

I think we agree on a lot of stuff here, but i think i have read enough and asked enough questions, taken actual numbers to be quite confident in saying some things that you seem to disagree with~
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/31/14 at 1:03am
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post #43 of 47
Mine is the 60 mm with the stand , that cost about 50 euro , but you can mount pumps and res to it.
Yeah the 46 mm is the same price as a single good 360 , that why i went with a nova, cheaper , more efficient , less fittings , less tubing ,less cabling and possibility to mount bigger fans, it only take space .
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post #44 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post


I can show you way more wattage than that

LinX 0.6.5 with 6144 memory entered = ~170w (~192 GFlops)
Peak Vcore = 1.092
Hottest core = 78c

"It's at the wall for the entire system.

I think we agree on a lot of stuff here ......

I guess here's where I am getting lost..... you are saying 170w "at the wall" where ya platinum PSU is good for about 87% efficiency.....that's 147.9 watts coming outta the PSU for the entire system....after subtracting the base load, I don't get how ya get back up to 200 ?
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post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

I guess here's where I am getting lost..... you are saying 170w "at the wall" where ya platinum PSU is good for about 87% efficiency.....that's 147.9 watts coming outta the PSU for the entire system....after subtracting the base load, I don't get how ya get back up to 200 ?

That's a quote from someone else, not me~

and it was an example of gaining about 65 watts - below 1.1vcore - by changing the test ran. Going from one full CPU load to another



If we take the full cpu load video encoding with 87% efficiency, that's ~100w drawn from the psu, now that's entire system so it's clearly not 84w for the CPU - no way you can get a GPU, RAM, drives, fans and all that in 16w, so we have to shoot a bit lower to start

If you call it 70w for the cpu alone, then you're adding another 48w from the psu by running the avx2 synthetic test, so going to 118w, at below 1.1vcore. If you go from 1.1 to 1.4vcore, you are pretty much doubling power - no? This is on i5, not i7 - which consumes like 1.15x more.

Likewise, if we're getting ~118w cpu power consumption at below 1.1vcore on the lower power consumption cpu, i5 instead of i7, you're calling 1.25 stock voltage? That's not really a thing. The variance is quite high in volts, but most of these cpu's, especially i5, use less than "tdp" while video encoding, but way more than it with an aggressive test, because that's just the power number on the sensor that triggers them to drop from turbo speeds back to "stock", and lower themselves from turbo VID to stock VID, in order to cut power some



There's such a vast difference in power draw with a Haswell CPU depending on the type of test you are running. A Piledriver or Ivy Bridge CPU will get hot with IBT for example, but only get like 100-140gflops. The difference in power draw when you introduce avx2 instructions and let a Haswell cpu fly to 220gflops+ is much, much bigger - i'm quite sure you can get well over 150w with i7 @1.4v with a normal load, seen a few numbers putting it basically at 200 for stuff like video encoding - but with an aggressive test, you can get way higher. Way way way way way higher
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/31/14 at 9:38pm
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post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post


I really can't comment w/o knowing the fan rpm. My box is open only because I still haven't done the sleeving and I'm oft in there testing this or that and moving temp sensor around and the box sits about a foot back and to the left from my lappie on a L-shaped desk.....the desktop monitor and KB is on the left so I just spin my chair 90 degrees to work on the desktop. The fans, the pump, the everything is completely dead silent up to about 900 rpm. I can't speak to the optical as I haven't used it since building the Windows ISO.

Unlike temperature, noise is relative and depends upon the users tastes and the environment.. To me, any noise is unacceptable while doing normal work activity .... I'll put up with a little noise while stress testing but nothing over 1200 rpm. I find things like the H100 annoying enough that I won't be in the same room. I can hit 4.4 Ghz on air quite assuredly, the investment in WC to gain 0.1 or 0.2 GHz isn't not really as attractive as completely eliminating noise. Although I work from a Home Office, I do have 1 or 2 employees that I have in here a couple of days a week and listening to that in a work environment would be too distracting.

To others, they play with headphones on and don't mind 5500 rpm fans on 30 fpi rads.... I have never had a car (Porsche 911, Pontiac GTO, Datsun Z), that loud smile.gif

I have 12x Noctua 140mm ULN, and 2x Noctua 120mm PWM for my rads. The ULN 140mm fans are connected to 2x 6channel controllers that have only a slight audible noise difference between max and min throttles and the 120mm PWM only gets loud when I am hitting the CPU hard, however still on my to-do list is to trim the temp/fan throttle settings from their stock settings. When I'm using my PC for normal business usage the loudest thing are the 2x 40mm fans in my 6x SSD HotSwap enclosure (but this is a topic I'll make a separate thread on).

I do have to call bull**** on the Pontiac GTO tho, my friend had one of them (the one that had the same Holden engine as the Vette for that year, maybe 2006?). No way in hell are you going to tell me that even 1,000 PC case fans can get louder than a Pontiac GTO tongue.gif That car is a BEAST!
post #47 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialEdT View Post

I do have to call bull**** on the Pontiac GTO tho, my friend had one of them (the one that had the same Holden engine as the Vette for that year, maybe 2006?). No way in hell are you going to tell me that even 1,000 PC case fans can get louder than a Pontiac GTO tongue.gif That car is a BEAST!

You loose!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GSllkFWVhJI
biggrin.gif
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