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[AMD Business] AMD and Leap Computing Look To The Sky for Cloud Gaming at GDC 2014 - Page 2

post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post


50ms input lag is still unplayable. Note that 50ms input lag is VERY DIFFERENT from 50ms ping that we're used to experiencing.
Imagine having a 50ms ping AND a 50ms input lag... *shiver*

EDIT: I'm not talking about the entire game btw. ^ was more of a joke if they intend to have the entirety of the game cloud based. Having textures and lighting rendered through cloud would be fine. But leave the AI processing and such on the computers running the game. You can't play a FPS where your input lag is off by 50ms. Having a beam of light load 50ms later is fine.
Edited by AcEsSalvation - 3/24/14 at 1:14pm
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post #12 of 36
Look at the video lacrosse posted. Done correctly, and you can't even notice it.
post #13 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Would be nice to see it coming, but I think it'd be weird buying 1ms response mouse, 1ms response monitors and 1 ms response keyboard to be used along with 200ms response games, it just doesn't sync.

LAAAAAAAAAAAG.

Until Google Fiber hits the general consumer market it's all a fantasy.

Nope.

Even when Google Fiber is the national standard "high speed" internet, this won't be a reality.
Or at least I hope it doesn't become one, and even more do I hope it doesn't become big enough to have exclusive games.

The lag in cloud gaming will never go away. It's not a flaw in the system, it's just not physically capable of delivering performance equal to what we have now, and won't for many years to come.
Maybe when we figure out how to send data faster than the speed of light, and can achieve around 1ms ping from halfway across the US cloud gaming could be cool.

While our internet may suck in terms of bandwidth, it is almost as fast as it could physically be with our current technology.

Read the following, it has some nice information.
http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/rants/Latency.html

If you're lazy, just read this quote.
Quote:
A typical Ethernet card has a latency less than 1ms. The Internet backbone as a whole also has very good latency. Here's a real-world example:

The distance from Stanford to Boston is 4320km.
The speed of light in vacuum is 300 x 10^6 m/s.
The speed of light in fibre is roughly 66% of the speed of light in vacuum.
The speed of light in fibre is 300 x 10^6 m/s * 0.66 = 200 x 10^6 m/s.
The one-way delay to Boston is 4320 km / 200 x 10^6 m/s = 21.6ms.
The round-trip time to Boston and back is 43.2ms.
The current ping time from Stanford to Boston over today's Internet is about 85ms:

[cheshire@nitro]$ ping -c 1 lcs.mit.edu
PING lcs.mit.edu (18.26.0.36): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 18.26.0.36: icmp_seq=0 ttl=238 time=84.5 ms

So: the hardware of the Internet can currently achieve within a factor of two of the speed of light.

So the Internet is doing pretty well. It may get better with time, but we know it can never beat the speed of light. In other words, that 85ms round-trip time to Boston might reduce a bit, but it's never going to beat 43ms. The speed's going to get a bit better, but it's not going to double. We're already within a factor of two of the theoretical optimum. I think that's pretty good. Not many technologies can make that claim.



In terms of bandwidth, even google fiber is far from being able to provide enough for a good high end gaming experience.
For good quality, you want an uncompressed / lossless stream.

30 FPS Uncompressed
Single Monitor
1280x720 - 79 MB/s
1920x1080 - 178 MB/s
3840x2160 - 712 MB/s

Triple Monitor
3840x720 - 237 MB/s
5760x1080 - 534 MB/s
11520x2160 - 2.08GB/s

Lots of people want 60 FPS, so double those values and you have the raw bandwidth requirements.
This can be reduced to a fraction of the raw uncompressed bandwidth, but compression and decompression will further add to latency and increase processing requirements, and with lossless compression the latency will be much higher as a lot more processing is necessary.

The best we can hope for with Cloud Gaming in the near future is for something along the lines of MJPG compressed interactive streams of turn-based strategy games, or for it to play an unimportant role in the core gameplay like purely aesthetic physics simulations, I believe a COD game has a background fluid-simulation ocean rendered through the cloud.

And even then, assuming we do get 1ms latency.. nothing will beat being able to game uninterrupted when your internet goes out. The cloud brings with it it's own type of "always online DRM" that is and will forever be inescapable. Single Player games on cloud will be awful.
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post #14 of 36
This will cause us from not owning our games, we have crappy drms already but this will make things worse.
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post #15 of 36
Thread Starter 
Splashtop Optimized for AMD GPU and APU, Enabling Remote 3D Gaming & Professional Graphics

There are Millions, if not Billions of people around the world that have no interest or even knowledge of building the highest performance, highest end systems available. This is a solution for those people. Cloud is growing and will continue to grow because it's far more economical. As long as the solution provides an indistinguishable experience, which RapidFire and Sky seem to do, the masses will have no issue. There are already multiple Billions of devices on the market that would be paper weights without the cloud so consumers must not have any reservations about it.
post #16 of 36
What makes all of this even worse is that a lot of ISP's are putting data caps on their service. So not only do cloud computing add latency but it much more quickly eats up the data making it easier for ISP's to gouge us with fees.

I say, no thanks AMD.
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post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattifnatten View Post

The lag in cloud gaming will never go away. It's not a flaw in the system, it's just not physically capable of delivering performance equal to what we have now, and won't for many years to come.

Maybe when we figure out how to send data faster than the speed of light, and can achieve around 1ms ping from halfway across the US cloud gaming could be cool.

While our internet may suck in terms of bandwidth, it is almost as fast as it could physically be with our current technology.

Lightspeed isn't the limitation. A light signal can already go all the way around the world in the time it takes your ping to go across the country. The issue is one of the electronics involved, of transferring the signal from electrical to optical and back again. That's where the slowness comes from, more than the actual transit duration in the fiber.
post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Lightspeed isn't the limitation. A light signal can already go all the way around the world in the time it takes your ping to go across the country. The issue is one of the electronics involved, of transferring the signal from electrical to optical and back again. That's where the slowness comes from, more than the actual transit duration in the fiber.


Optical computing. Problem solved. thumb.gif


(I know there is research being done in this field and will take decades for anything more than interconnects/storage to be optical.)
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post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Lightspeed isn't the limitation. A light signal can already go all the way around the world in the time it takes your ping to go across the country. The issue is one of the electronics involved, of transferring the signal from electrical to optical and back again. That's where the slowness comes from, more than the actual transit duration in the fiber.

If that were true, then ping times would not vary so greatly based on geographic location OR be super low when testing ping on nearby locations.
Copper wires and fiber can only transmit data so fast. The speed of light isn't even achieved yet, but it's estimated to be 2/3 of the way there with our wires alone.

Lightspeed isn't even reached yet, but if and when it is it will still always be a limit.
Maybe we'll pass it, but until then it's the limit for the near and foreseeable future.


In World of Warcraft, I can get as low as 15ms ping on servers close by to me. If I play on a distant server, the ping shoots up to almost 100.

Blizzard has 4 Datacenters for World of Warcraft
-New York, New York (State I live in)
-Chicago, Illinois
-Phoenix, Arizona
-Los Angeles, California

I've got at least one character on realms hosted on three out of four of those, and the ping is stable yet different for each.
New York: 15 - 20
Chicago: 30-35
California: 75-90



What makes you think the speed of light isn't limiting?
And just how bad do you think the hardware conversion pings are?
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post #20 of 36
I find it odd that people find this so ridiculous to fathom when in 2007 I found Onlive's Beta pretty enjoyable.

God forbid the visual fidelity and latency suffers slightly while playing a AAA PC game on a tablet!

Secondly, this isn't a viable local PC replacement. Just something to supplement your gaming needs while you're either away from your PC or using an underpowered device.

Not Quake 3 ready, but not all games require that same responsiveness to be fun
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