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[AMD Business] AMD and Leap Computing Look To The Sky for Cloud Gaming at GDC 2014 - Page 4

post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow11377 View Post

If that were true, then ping times would not vary so greatly based on geographic location OR be super low when testing ping on nearby locations.
Copper wires and fiber can only transmit data so fast. The speed of light isn't even achieved yet, but it's estimated to be 2/3 of the way there with our wires alone.

Lightspeed isn't even reached yet, but if and when it is it will still always be a limit.
Maybe we'll pass it, but until then it's the limit for the near and foreseeable future.


What makes you think the speed of light isn't limiting?
And just how bad do you think the hardware conversion pings are?

You do realize that there aren't wires running from your house directly to datacenters around the country? rolleyes.gif

The electrical propagation speed in a copper wire is around 0.6c or 402 million mph.
Fiber carry data as light.... so they can move near the speed of light at 671 million mph.

How isn't the speed of light achieved yet? It's achieved when you turn on a light bulb or shoot a laser down an optical fiber.

How would we "pass" the speed of light? (Please read up on your physics!)

Speed of light is not the limit since it can cross the US in about 16ms. It is the switches and routers that have to process each packet and forward them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

However, what happens when you're working and your internet goes out? He had no answer to that.

Well, I do.

Let's first set the premise that Internet is becoming more and more like a utility.... (Wish FCC would just classify it as a common carrier already!)

Therefore, let's rephrase your question a bit: what happens when you're working and your electricity goes out?

You might argue that you can run off batteries and generators as contingencies that you can purchase.

With the Internet..... you have the option of contingent systems as well. Cable/DSL, modem, cellular, satellite, cell-to-cell....
Edited by DuckieHo - 3/24/14 at 9:08pm
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post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

You might argue that you can run off batteries and generators as contingencies that you can purchase.

With the Internet..... you have the option of contingent systems as well. Cable/DSL, modem, cellular, satellite, cell-to-cell....

Batteries and phones, sattelite and other services have their own problems, namely capacity and data caps. Thus you are still massively restricted. Even if xG becomes standard and we get 1 gigabit up and down data caps will be so heavily imposed as to make the cloud useless. Also there's the case of privacy and security involved. As we saw with Mega Upload, governments will take everything as they see fit because law doesn't apply to them, it only applies to the masses of peasants who won't stand up to them.
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post #33 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Would be nice to see it coming, but I think it'd be weird buying 1ms response mouse, 1ms response monitors and 1 ms response keyboard to be used along with 200ms response games, it just doesn't sync.

LAAAAAAAAAAAG.

Until Google Fiber hits the general consumer market it's all a fantasy.

Even then, that doesn't eliminate or even help reduce latency. Fiber may be faster, but it will have around the same average latency, as cable internet.
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post #34 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Batteries and phones, sattelite and other services have their own problems, namely capacity and data caps. Thus you are still massively restricted. Even if xG becomes standard and we get 1 gigabit up and down data caps will be so heavily imposed as to make the cloud useless. Also there's the case of privacy and security involved. As we saw with Mega Upload, governments will take everything as they see fit because law doesn't apply to them, it only applies to the masses of peasants who won't stand up to them.

....same could be said about an immature electrical grid.... capacity and caps. Internet is still developing technology.

You keep saying that caps are guaranteed.... but you don't know that. No, you don't. I know you will want and attempt to say that they are... but there is no absolute. The cloud will not become useless because of data caps because there is a lot of money behind the cloud as well. Amazon, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, Samsung, and dozens of more companies are behind greater Internet usage.

Cloud can be secure and private..... locally encrypt and push to cloud?


Quote:
Originally Posted by NateN34 View Post

Even then, that doesn't eliminate or even help reduce latency. Fiber may be faster, but it will have around the same average latency, as cable internet.
Just to note, the last-mile might be cable.... but the backbone and datacenters are often fiber.

Your data probably spends more distance on fiber than copper!
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post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow11377 View Post

A typical Ethernet card has a latency less than 1ms. The Internet backbone as a whole also has very good latency. Here's a real-world example:

The distance from Stanford to Boston is 4320km.
The speed of light in vacuum is 300 x 10^6 m/s.
The speed of light in fibre is roughly 66% of the speed of light in vacuum.
The speed of light in fibre is 300 x 10^6 m/s * 0.66 = 200 x 10^6 m/s.
The one-way delay to Boston is 4320 km / 200 x 10^6 m/s = 21.6ms.
The round-trip time to Boston and back is 43.2ms.
The current ping time from Stanford to Boston over today's Internet is about 85ms:

[cheshire@nitro]$ ping -c 1 lcs.mit.edu
PING lcs.mit.edu (18.26.0.36): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 18.26.0.36: icmp_seq=0 ttl=238 time=84.5 ms

So: the hardware of the Internet can currently achieve within a factor of two of the speed of light.

So the Internet is doing pretty well. It may get better with time, but we know it can never beat the speed of light. In other words, that 85ms round-trip time to Boston might reduce a bit, but it's never going to beat 43ms. The speed's going to get a bit better, but it's not going to double. We're already within a factor of two of the theoretical optimum. I think that's pretty good. Not many technologies can make that claim.

And just to re-emphasis some points that people made... You will not be going across the US. For something like this, they don't need a massive data-center or anything, they can have smaller stations located around the US. Probably one in LA, San Francisco, Dallas, Atlanta, New York City, Chicago.

Going from Denver to Dallas is only 800 miles which speed of light can travel in 4ms, and fiber would be around 5.5 ms. I guess the lowest your ping would be is 20ms\ 40 round-trip which wouldn't be that bad. 60ms latency is probably my cutoff.

They will put centers in locations where there is a lot of population, for which you shouldn't have to travel too far. For people that live in rural areas, yeah it will probably suck for them.
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post #36 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

You do realize that there aren't wires running from your house directly to datacenters around the country? rolleyes.gif
Yes, of course. I'm fully aware that I do not have a straight wire from my house to cali that doesn't pass through other network hubs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

How isn't the speed of light achieved yet? It's achieved when you turn on a light bulb or shoot a laser down an optical fiber.

It's actually not. It's close though.

You even say so yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Fiber carry data as light.... so they can move near the speed of light at 671 million mph.

Not quite there, but close. The room for improvement is little, and when we reach it it'll still be a measurable delay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

How would we "pass" the speed of light? (Please read up on your physics!)

That's exactly why I brought it up.

We're nowhere near doing so, and believe it is unachievable and impossible. At least in our current times and the near and quite distant future.
Who's to say what will happen in a thousand years, though. I bet we'll all look dumb then. (The world is flat, etc)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Speed of light is not the limit since it can cross the US in about 16ms. It is the switches and routers that have to process each packet and forward them.
Well, I do.

So that would make it a 32ms round trip, at light speed. Assuming it happened in the way it doesn't, which would be directly from A-B in as straight of a line as possible.
xWfScTA.png
That doesn't happen. My house in NY to Cali passes through numerous different datacenters all connected between themselves, and that adds distance. It's obviously not 10x the distance but it's certainly extra.

After everything, 50ms round trip is realistic. Not 16ms. Right now I get 80 from NY to Cali, so we're quite fast but still certainly have room to improve but it'll never be zero. While I cannot tell the difference between 16 or 50ms in typical things, it becomes easily noticeable in gaming or interactive things.

I can't tell you the number when I feel the delay, but at 20 it feels like almost nothing and at around 50-80 it becomes noticeable. 200ms is almost unbearable.
Edited by Shadow11377 - 3/25/14 at 9:15am
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