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FX-8350 Build. Need advice. - Page 3

post #21 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I see it going for $115 on newegg (no idea how competitive it is and his original solid choice (990FXA-UD3) going for 125 so I am gonna call it a near wash.

Smoothness can be a red herring and minimums are overstated in your post. You may prefer the xeon and the 760 but fact remains an FX-8320 and a 770 will outperform and offer a superior gaming experience/more eye candy in most games out there. GTX 760 can and will dip low at places that a 770 will not. Your solution (dropping graphics detail) has a counter arguement. If he finds a game where the FX has unappealing drops he can always choose to reduce cpu load (eg mesh quality in BF games) or play with fewer players (bf4,maps,wow raids etc).It's the same reasoning.

In each and every GPU bound or mostly GPU bound game out there by going xeon+760 over FX+770 he gets a choice between lower performance or lower eye candy. FX+770 will not just offer 80-90% of xeon+760 performance,but 100%+. Not to mention the Xeon is no 4770k. It lacks 200Mhz and can't be overclocked, K/FX cpus offer that choice for future consideration.
have you had sli on both fx and icore platforms?

I am far from an intel fanboy. But I did have single 660ti on a 5ghz fx6300. I had no complaints until adding the second card.

Anyway in bf4 on ultra 4msaa with 150% screen res 1080p the dips were bad with the fx.

Lowering seetings helped only slightly. I wanted the game maxed though and 660ti sli is titan level at 1080p so it should be maxed.

I really wanted to just move to 8core it would have saved me $200. I was lucky enough to get a friend to let me borrow his 8320 for a test on M4A99ex evo. It still had dips in bf4. It was locked at 75fps(monitor refresh) but it would dip to 45fps everytime a explosion popped.

45fps min was not acceptable to me. I switched to 4670k. And even at stock it never goes under 70fps now. I mean 70-75fps feels completely smooth.

Some people might be ok with dips into the 40s. It was jarring to me. Although most non cpu intensive games ran good without the dips I described. Bf4 64man was the worst though.

I even tried everything I could to keep from changing mobo/cpu. I got a bigger psu and went to 2600mhz ram, unparked cores ect.

If I was planning a build with the intention of sli later. Save yourself some cash and go intel on the front end.

I have nothing to gain here. I am just sharing my experience with sli on fx setup. I really like the fx line but its not ideal for multi gpu.
Edited by Wirerat - 3/26/14 at 7:47am
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post #22 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

have you had sli on both fx and icore platforms?

I am far from an intel fanboy. But I did have single 660ti on a 5ghz fx6300. I had no complaints until adding the second card.

Anyway in bf4 on ultra 4msaa with 150% screen res 1080p the dips were bad with the fx.

Lowering seetings helped only slightly. I wanted the game maxed though and 660ti sli is titan level at 1080p so it should be maxed.

I really wanted to just move to 8core it would have saved me $200. I was lucky enough to get a friend to let me borrow his 8320 for a test on M4A99ex evo. It still had dips in bf4. It was locked at 75fps(monitor refresh) but it would dip to 45fps everytime a explosion popped.

45fps min was not acceptable to me. I switched to 4670k. And even at stock it never goes under 70fps now. I mean 70-75fps feels completely smooth.

Some people might be ok with dips into the 40s. It was jarring to me. Although most non cpu intensive games ran good without the dips I described. Bf4 was the worst though.

I even tried everything I could to keep from changing mobo/cpu. I got a bigger psu and went to 2600mhz ram, unparked cores ect.

If I was planning a build with the intention of sli later. Save yourself some cash and go intel on the front end.

I have nothing to gain here. I am just sharing my experience with sli on fx setup. I really like the fx line but its not ideal for multi gpu.

I don't disagree with what you say. The 6300 is a lesser chip though,i3 competitor, such behaviour is expected. Not sure why the difference 4670k vs 8320 on BF4, I have actually tried both on CFX/SLi (not my system, I review stuff) and they both get dips, tbh I find it hard to believe (due to experience, not that I believe you are lying) a stock 4670k keeps steady 70fps on BF4 SLi when it drops in the 50's often with a single card (~100% cpu usage) eg on siege of shanghai. As I said from scratch, 4770k is the top performer. If you can afford it without skimping on graphics, you get it and never look back. Now If certain specific games come to play, choice can be easier (For SC2 you don't even consider AMD CPU for example, for BF4 it is radeon on the graphics any day of the week due to mantle and so on). 4670k is a good call, btw. Might not have the raw performance of i7-4770k for encoding but it is cheaper and well rounded, op could check it out.
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post #23 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I don't disagree with what you say. The 6300 is a lesser chip though,i3 competitor, such behaviour is expected. Not sure why the difference 4670k vs 8320 on BF4, I have actually tried both on CFX/SLi (not my system, I review stuff) and they both get dips, tbh I find it hard to believe (due to experience, not that I believe you are lying) a stock 4670k keeps steady 70fps on BF4 SLi when it drops in the 50's often with a single card (~100% cpu usage) eg on siege of shanghai. As I said from scratch, 4770k is the top performer. If you can afford it without skimping on graphics, you get it and never look back. Now If certain specific games come to play, choice can be easier (For SC2 you don't even consider AMD CPU for example, for BF4 it is radeon on the graphics any day of the week due to mantle and so on). 4670k is a good call, btw. Might not have the raw performance of i7-4770k for encoding but it is cheaper and well rounded, op could check it out.

Well my bf4 experience now shows no dips that you can feel. My monitor is locked at 75fps. No vsync. My cpu is set to 4.6ghz and it goes up to 70% or so in bf4. The dips are gone. I have zero lag now. I can set bios to stock and that stays the same. No more big dips. I also wassnt able to run all ultra 4msaa and 150% on the fx. I set most of that up higher than needed just to get more gpu usage being limited to 75fps. I really cant see much difference in the msaa + screen res.


You mentioned a gtx 770. Well the guy who bought my ma499x and fx6300 paired it with a gtx 770. He clocked it at 4.5 and runs bf4 fine. Non of the big dips I described. The fx chips do not like a situation where it is heavily cpu bound. Duel gpu create that most of the time. But for one gpu. They are very fast actually.
Edited by Wirerat - 3/26/14 at 8:24am
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post #24 of 86
GPU related performance "dips" are usually proportional to core configuration/speeds when comparing GPUs. The "worst case scenario" for a GTX760 is to "dip" to 75% of the performance of the GTX770. The only scenario where this is not the case, is if the lesser GPU runs into a VRAM limitation (like a 2GB vs 4GB card). There are ALWAYS settings that can be adjusted to achieve good smooth results on a middle tier GPU.

CPU related performance dips,are not always directly proportional to CPU performance. In game engines that are sensitive to per-core performance and have multiple jobs running within a single thread, performance dips can actually be logarithmically worse as CPU performance is reduced because of the way things compound in these poorly engineered workloads Some of the jobs that are running within a thread can be "slacked off" and others can not. The result of this is that, as CPU performance dips closer and closer to the "minimum" required to maintain real-time AI functions, there is nothing left for draw calls, which means, approaching 0FPS. In actuality, these games will begin to slack off of maintaining real-time in order to get SOME draw calls made instead, but there's no setting that can be reduced far enough to "solve" this problem on the graphical side. Choosing not to play a high player count, or high unit count game because the CPU can't keep up, is a far different limitation than choosing to reduce the graphical detail a notch. On paper, the "worst case scenario" for a "4.2ghz" turbo speed on the FX, may be "65%" as good as the "3.7ghz" turbo on the E3-1230V3 for single threaded performance, but in the real world, performance will dip to BELOW that 65% margin of difference in these workloads I am describing.

As an example: Piledriver @ ~4ghz, begins to slack off draw calls at ~1000 units in Supcom 2. It begins to fall behind real time at ~2000 units, and is bordering on pull-your-hair-out frustrating at 3000 units. Overclock it to 5ghz, and there is no noticeable "slack" all the way up to 2000+ units, and can even handle close to real-time with the full 4000 units. Increasing CPU performance by just 25% in this case, "solves" the performance problem on the CPU side and allows this game to be played all the way to the worst case conditions (8 player x 500 units each). There is no game settings that can solve any of this, the only thing that solves it is increasing CPU core performance. 25% increase in CPU performance winds up DOUBLING the number of units that the game engine can handle.

There are many game engines, that are forced to run multiple jobs within the same thread for many technical reasons. Obviously that is changing as software development adapts to the hardware, but the existence of current and future software that takes advantage of parallelism better does not solve the problem for existing software that many people still want to run.

Picking a step-down GPU in the middle-tier, will NOT dictate hard limits on what games you can play, or what conditions in those games your system can handle (unit/player count).
Picking a CPU with 25-35% lower performance in lightly threaded workloads, CAN dictate hard limits about what games you can play, or what conditions in those games your system can handle (unit/player count).
     
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post #25 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

GPU related performance "dips" with the full 4000 units. Increasing CPU.......... (unit/player count).

The dips I decribed felt more like microstutter. It wasnt complete freezes but more a jarring affect. It recovered fast. Increasing settings made it worse. I thought more settings might get he load onto the gpu but it had a negative affect.

I still think a single gpu even a very powrtful one like gtx 780 can work great without the dips I explained on a fx.

Maybe running the driver with multi gpu is more optimized for intel.
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post #26 of 86
For your budget, i think it might be a little difficult to fit in that 4gb GPU, since right now the prices are quite high. If you want to go into the FX world, you can't go wrong. Are they the best in the world, no. But They are still none the less a great chip. Right now you can get an FX-6300 for about $120, and FX 6350 for about $140 ...and fx 8320 for $160 and and fx 8350 for $180-200 Depending if there are deals going on with newegg (which is often). All of them i think would be great for what you would use it for, and they all should last for the next 2-5 years (i might be a little optimistic there). Right now the cheapest 290 is the MSI r9 290 which is going for like $460. All other GPU's are going to be 500 and up, so if you are going into the 1000$ range, this will take up half your budget. A good psu, like stated by others 750+ would suit your needs and those can range from 70-160 depending on quality and whether you want a modular or non modular design. I personally like the corsair line of PSU, but thats all on you. Mobo, if you don't plan on OC'n then you can go with a cheaper MOBO that has 4+1 phase power, which are cheaper. If you want to OC go with something that has 8+2 phase power, like a gigabyte 990fxa - ud3/5. Had mine for 3 years, no issues and great price (~130-140$). Ram if you want 8 gb, your looking at another 60-90, newegg always has good prices and sales going on with ram. G.skill sniper / ripjaws or Corsair vengence would be really good. If you have a HDD already then theres is money saved, if you want faster snappier responses, go SSD. Those are getting cheaper nowadays too. You can either do what most like to do which is get a 60gb SSD and use it for OS only (it makes a difference trust me) and then use an HDD for other files/games/media. OR just go straight SSD's, but that will cut into your budget. Case? If you already have one great, if you want a mid tower, they arent that expensive, if you want a full tower, then those are pricer (100-200 on average). CPU cooler, if you don't plan on OC'n, you'll be fine with stock cooler if you dont mind the noise, it'll spin up to 3000 rpm or higher and will be kinda loud. Another option, Hyper 212 plus or hyper212 evo, both less than 30 bucks (sometimes less than 20) and compete with many high end coolers. I think that is the gist of it all. to recap:
CPU: ~120-180
GPU: ~460 - 500+ (you could also do an r9 280 3gb)
PSU: ~70-160
MOBO: ~80-150
RAM: ~60-90
SSD: ~60-170 (60gb/120gb/ and some 240gb ssds are included in this range)
HDD: ~80-100 for 1 tb
CPU: ~20-30
... I realize my prices are not exact, they are approximation just so you can get an idea of what to look for and how much you might be spending. For 700 for sure you will have a really good gaming rig. shop around and look for deals, newegg always has great deals / promos/ rebates. Amazon sometimes has good stuff too and every once in a while i find some good stuff from tigerdirect.
PS. I personally would not recommend going crossfire/sli, i feel there are just way to many annoying issues to worry about, and most new "next gen" games that have been coming out dont support crossfire/sli right of the bat, and the drivers that seem to be coming out seem to get worse. I know not everyone has these issues, but when i get into the forums i know im not alone. Just something to consider before you spend over a grand on GPU's alone. One strong card is all you need IMO. Hope this helps.
post #27 of 86
Please guy lets not start a WAR! You can discuses by creating a new THREAD.
Quote:
Id like to get back on eve, maybe some of the newer shooters. Budget is about a grand with a little overflow. I do game dev and would like a machine that can handle some high poly 3d modeling, texturing and rendering hence the 4gb video card and 8 core processor. resolution? 1080p? is that the standard now? I dont think i need 4k.

The user said he want to go with AMD 8350.

I guess we are on the same boat wink.gif I normally do video editing and 3D. Honestly the 4770K is slightly faster then the 8350 in the task. It depends if you want to spend around £120 extra for like 5 percent increase. But from my experience that the mistake I made, going from a 8350 to 4770K made barely any improvements but my work colleague has a 3960x which was a killer but that cost a bomb wink.gif I would go for a 8350 and buy a per-build water cooler (even if you for 4770K). Depending on how long and how much you work on 3D modeling or rendering the stock cooler will get loud so get a decent cooler and you would be good.


Secondly he wants get back into games. I recommend getting a GTX 780 or R9 290. Also if your seriously intro 3D get your self a workstation card :O
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post #28 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narinik View Post

I haven't built a rig in almost 10 years. It has come time to upgrade from my P4 system I built in high school. I decided to go with an FX-8350 and build from there. i don't plan to OC anything for a while or if at all. I know I want 8gb ram and a 4gb video card with sli/crossfire support to add a second card in the future. This is all mostly from just reading forums/reviews so I could be way off in building a decent gaming rig for about a grand.
Any suggestions on where to go from here or anything I could change?

CPU: AMD FX-8350 Black
MoBo: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866
Video: GIGABYTE GV-N770OC-4GD GeForce GTX 770 4GB
Hey OP? Where you at? RUN AWAY FROM UD3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you need a lower end board look at these.
Budget: Asus M5A99X EVO
Mid: Asus M5A99FX PRO/ ASRock Extreme 4 (If you still get it?)
High: Asus 990FX Sabertooth R2.0/ AsRock Extreme 9/ Gigabyte 990FX-UD5
Ultra: Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z/ Gigabyte 990FX-UD7

Ram looks good, but I would say get 16Gb (2x8Gb) instead of 8Gb (2x4Gb)
GPU looks good as well. However don't hesitate to look at the AMD offerings. 280X is a good performer here. Maybe a bit price gouged at the moment thanks to the mining craze but hopefully that dies in a bit!
Cooling I would say INVEST in a more expensive dual tower or CLC like the CM Glacier/Nepton or Swiftec H220/220X/320. This will allow you the room to overclock to about 4.6-4.8GHz.

I've read this thread. Valid point for both sides. And I am inclined to agree with the bigger GPU/smaller CPU argument vs the smaller GPU/bigger CPU argument. BUT LETS NOT HIJACK THE THREAD! AND TURN THIS INTO AMD VS. INTEL FLAME WAR!
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post #29 of 86
I owned the m5a99 evo. Its sweet board with pcie 2.0 8x by 8x in sli. The pro is about the same price and offers pcie 2.0 16x by 16x in sli.
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post #30 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narinik View Post

I haven't built a rig in almost 10 years. It has come time to upgrade from my P4 system I built in high school. I decided to go with an FX-8350 and build from there. i don't plan to OC anything for a while or if at all. I know I want 8gb ram and a 4gb video card with sli/crossfire support to add a second card in the future. This is all mostly from just reading forums/reviews so I could be way off in building a decent gaming rig for about a grand.
Any suggestions on where to go from here or anything I could change?

CPU: AMD FX-8350 Black
MoBo: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866
Video: GIGABYTE GV-N770OC-4GD GeForce GTX 770 4GB



There is nothing wrong with this setup.

Look for a good psu .

Intel people will always say amd is a bad choice but keep it.

It is like the days of you will never need a quad core... What are most of us running? Quad core

You will never need 8 gig of ram.... What is the new entry level of ram? 8gig.

AMD are in some ways just way ahead of time... Some you said you are still using your p4 ( most of the people here don't know what it is) I am going on that statement this is going to be a long term rig.

Now from past experience and seen what has happened.... Amd will be you best bet.
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