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[GIZ] IRS Declares Bitcoin Is Property and Must Be Taxed As Such - Page 18

post #171 of 199
i'd like to see anarchy in the UK before i die - the rich are getting richer and the poor well, what government cares ?

soon as you get a chance to do something your hacked down - crikey your own relatives cant leave you bugger all with out the government getting their sweaty hands all over it mad.gif

So yeah! Any tax they can make up they will - sorry for you guys in the states redface.gif
post #172 of 199
Just to throw it out there, I don't believe humans are innately "greedy" or "violent" etc. Nor are most of the animals out there, especially the social ones.

Our characters are multifaceted, and cannot be generalized to "single words".

There is a lot of research proving that social structures can bring out the worst, just like the best in us.

In an unjust society with high inequality, it is only logical for solidarity to suffer, even what appears to be mindless violence to erupt.
But it is something that gets cultivated by social interaction. If anything, our empathy is also innate to us, and that allows us to sympathize with the close out our kin.

The issue is, that it is hard for us to identify what is close to us.

Was hard when cities were forming thousands of years ago, it is much harder now in a highly diverse, multicultural environment. Add the size and population of the US (or China and India for that matter) and the great inequality that prevails in most parts of the world but gets peaked in certain areas of those countries, and there you have it...

If you are after a single word that describes us, it is not greedy, or violent.
We are unhappy. And in a society that favors to portrait happiness counted in possessions, it is only natural for us to crave for possessions as end of means instead of means to an end.
And natural for "taxes" that claim back our only "happiness" as something sad.
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post #173 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

Just to throw it out there, I don't believe humans are innately "greedy" or "violent" etc. Nor are most of the animals out there, especially the social ones.

Our characters are multifaceted, and cannot be generalized to "single words".

There is a lot of research proving that social structures can bring out the worst, just like the best in us.

In an unjust society with high inequality, it is only logical for solidarity to suffer, even what appears to be mindless violence to erupt.
But it is something that gets cultivated by social interaction. If anything, our empathy is also innate to us, and that allows us to sympathize with the close out our kin.

The issue is, that it is hard for us to identify what is close to us.

Was hard when cities were forming thousands of years ago, it is much harder now in a highly diverse, multicultural environment. Add the size and population of the US (or China and India for that matter) and the great inequality that prevails in most parts of the world but gets peaked in certain areas of those countries, and there you have it...

If you are after a single word that describes us, it is not greedy, or violent.
We are unhappy. And in a society that favors to portrait happiness counted in possessions, it is only natural for us to crave for possessions as end of means instead of means to an end.
And natural for "taxes" that claim back our only "happiness" as something sad.

QFT +1. Very well put and I agree on all points.

People all see the same behavior from different perspectives and tend to try and give it a single label to simplify things. What appears as greed to one can be attributed to an entirely different set of desires or needs to another, or the one involved. Sometimes, greed simply is greed, but for many it's a LOT deeper than that.
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post #174 of 199
So you can still cash out before this is put into law and not have to worry about backdate collection correct?
post #175 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkizzy View Post

So you can still cash out before this is put into law and not have to worry about backdate collection correct?
No. This is retroactive, and if you filed your previous years taxes differently you are supposed to amend the return.
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post #176 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creator View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakalakaz View Post

"Q-8: Does a taxpayer who "mines" virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully "mines" virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income."

This is just full retard.

I accept that I have to pay taxes when I cash out crypto. But as I obtain? When this market is purely speculative and can just crash to nothing overnight? Or even just even the price on the coins constantly swings up and as much as 50% at times? And what about trading in the altcoins market? Like what is this I don't even... mad.gif

Wait...What? I missed this the first time around. So they are expecting to tax people for just making virtual currency? That is not how property out side of real estate is taxed. That is like taxing a person for growing carrots in their garden. You aren't supposed to get taxed until you try to sell the carrots. If you just grow them and keep them for yourself they are not income.

This is new...there is no precedence for this. You don't pay income tax for items that you own. You might pay sales tax when you buy the items, but I've seen no tax code that says if I make a chair in my garage I have to pay tax for owning said chair. Unless I completely misread this originally and virtual currency is being considered the same as real estate property.
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post #177 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Wait...What? I missed this the first time around. So they are expecting to tax people for just making virtual currency? That is not how property out side of real estate is taxed. That is like taxing a person for growing carrots in their garden. You aren't supposed to get taxed until you try to sell the carrots. If you just grow them and keep them for yourself they are not income.

This is new...there is no precedence for this. You don't pay income tax for items that you own. You might pay sales tax when you buy the items, but I've seen no tax code that says if I make a chair in my garage I have to pay tax for owning said chair. Unless I completely misread this originally and virtual currency is being considered the same as real estate property.

You only need to tax them that way from what I can tell is if mining is a source of income. For example if you don't work and mine 24/7 its taxable just like your normal income.
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post #178 of 199
Let's say theoretically that you never have any USD on you. All of your net worth is tied up in BTC and property.

How would the IRS attempt to tax you then? Would they force you to convert most of your assets to USD in order to take from you?

That would be my guess. The IRS always has underhanded ways in order to take from you. Even if you make income outside of the US and it has nothing to do with the US they will still demand a cut of it.
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post #179 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Wait...What? I missed this the first time around. So they are expecting to tax people for just making virtual currency? That is not how property out side of real estate is taxed. That is like taxing a person for growing carrots in their garden. You aren't supposed to get taxed until you try to sell the carrots. If you just grow them and keep them for yourself they are not income.

This is new...there is no precedence for this. You don't pay income tax for items that you own. You might pay sales tax when you buy the items, but I've seen no tax code that says if I make a chair in my garage I have to pay tax for owning said chair. Unless I completely misread this originally and virtual currency is being considered the same as real estate property.

You only need to tax them that way from what I can tell is if mining is a source of income. For example if you don't work and mine 24/7 its taxable just like your normal income.

but what if you never sold them for US dollars? Is the IRS going to accept Doge coins as payment? Will the IRS force a person to sell them for US dollars in order to pay the tax on them? I am going to try to find and read "Pub 525" and see if it sheds any light on it.
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post #180 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Wait...What? I missed this the first time around. So they are expecting to tax people for just making virtual currency? That is not how property out side of real estate is taxed. That is like taxing a person for growing carrots in their garden. You aren't supposed to get taxed until you try to sell the carrots. If you just grow them and keep them for yourself they are not income.

This is new...there is no precedence for this. You don't pay income tax for items that you own. You might pay sales tax when you buy the items, but I've seen no tax code that says if I make a chair in my garage I have to pay tax for owning said chair. Unless I completely misread this originally and virtual currency is being considered the same as real estate property.

Difference is imho - and I might be talking non-sense - that carrots or sheep are not currency. Bitcoin and cryptos are trying to be.
When you "mine"/successfully validate a new crypto-coin, you are practically printing new money. Addition to the value of the economy is claimed.

Carrots add to the GNP too but , and trust me, if you could produce a few hundred thousands carrots a day in every couple of square feet of your back yard, it would be a completely different story.
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