Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Which one should i choose?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Which one should i choose? - Page 3

post #21 of 38
Thread Starter 
Well, actually i have to choose mouse and i have a time only until tommorow to send my results.

so even unnable to test any of them :E

i think ill get ZOWIE EC1 eVo CL, cause it really looks pretty solid, and i like ZOWIE's products cause they do gaming gear, not toys, i hope that Tracking speed, or control speed of 4m/s wont be a problem, and will manage to do well in CS:GO and LoL Aswell biggrin.gif

only 1 problem what i've heard actually about zowie EC 1 eVo CL is the coating, that sometimes drops off. :E

Hope it will be my final and great choice biggrin.gif
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

The Sensei has AWFUL acceleration, which is even worse on cloth pads. Do not buy that thing, you have been warned. I tried it for a couple months thinking I could get used to it. No go. It maxes out around 4 m/s on Enotus, which is right in line with the 150 IPS spec on the ADNS-9500 that it is equipped with. It's such a shame because that mouse is as close to perfect as any...if they put the 3310 in there I might just have to sell my Avior even...

The EC1/2 and KPO are both really excellent mice, but I still think the Avior is better. However, it won't allow for a great palm grip since it's a bit small for that. I fingertip/claw and I played 10 hours of BF4 yesterday with no problem on it.

I still find it hard to read this sometimes how hard acceleration is bashed on OCN. And or laser mice in regard.
Acceleration can be a real pro benifit if the acceleration in speed is consistent in they way youre cursor speed is increased in the manner of speed you are moving youre mouse.

acceleration:
If consistent it can be mastered.

For example back in the day Quake players would fiddle arround with acceleration to increase there maximum perfomance.

I think acceleration is more about the gameplay of a game and can be a real pro if you master it.

For example if you are in games like Quake, Unreal or Call of Duty most of the times shots are reaction/twitch shots where you would need to move youre crosshair a longer distance at youre screen being it horizontal or vertical in gameplay.

Offcourse you would still have youre cursor at the corners off walls and pre aiming there.
But seeing the way the way maps are build in the more arcade shooters. There will be a lot of situation where you needed to turn 90* or 180* degrees and make the shot.

Especially pro's at quake used acceleration.
There aiming style to be quicker as there oppenent was build open covering the distance quicker with acceleration on, and lowering there mouse movement at the last bit of distance to make the shot accurate and on target.

In opposite is the gameplay of Counter strike more or less where pre aiming is a big part of the gameplay and when they have to make the shot they only need to make a tiny adjustment/distance with there crosshair .
Wich is offcourse easier mastered as muscle memory with no acceleration.

But the rather bigger distance you have to cover on screen with youre crosshair the bigger benifit acceleration gets because you will be able to cover the distance quicker with youre crosshair to the target and make the last tiny adjustment at the end of the movement slower to get the shot of.

So its all about gameplay and aiming style.

For RTS its a complete different story some starcraft players tend to favour it aswell seeing the can push the outer sides of the screen faster so the can move faster arround the map.
But seeing people macro's there homebase or unit it has become more or less irrelevant.
Edited by CtrlAltel1te - 3/26/14 at 3:36pm
post #23 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltel1te View Post

I still find it hard to read this sometimes how hard acceleration is bashed on OCN. And or laser mice in regard.
Acceleration can be a real pro benifit if the acceleration in speed is consistent in they way youre cursor speed is increased in the manner of speed you are moving youre mouse.

acceleration:
If consistent it can be mastered.

For example back in the day Quake players would fiddle arround with acceleration to increase there maximum perfomance.

I think acceleration is more about the gameplay of a game and can be a real pro if you master it.

For example if you are in games like Quake, Unreal or Call of Duty most of the times shots are reaction/twitch shots where you would need to move youre crosshair a longer distance at youre screen being it horizontal or vertical in gameplay.

Offcourse you would still have youre cursor at the corners off walls and pre aiming there.
But seeing the way the way maps are build in the more arcade shooters. There will be a lot of situation where you needed to turn 90* or 180* degrees and make the shot.

Especially pro's at quake used acceleration.
There aiming style to be quicker as there oppenent was build open covering the distance quicker with acceleration on, and lowering there mouse movement at the last bit of distance to make the shot accurate and on target.

In opposite is the gameplay of Counter strike more or less where pre aiming is a big part of the gameplay and when they have to make the shot they only need to make a tiny adjustment/distance with there crosshair .
Wich is offcourse easier mastered as muscle memory with no acceleration.

But the rather bigger distance you have to cover on screen with youre crosshair the bigger benifit acceleration gets because you will be able to cover the distance quicker with youre crosshair to the target and make the last tiny adjustment at the end of the movement slower to get the shot of.

So its all about gameplay and aiming style.

For RTS its a complete different story some starcraft players tend to favour it aswell seeing the can push the outer sides of the screen faster so the can move faster arround the map.
But seeing people macro's there homebase or unit it has become more or less irrelevant.

You are missing something...the ADNS-9500 has INCONSISTENT acceleration. Every swipe is going to land at a different point beyond the point you intended to land at because you are human and no one can perfectly swipe the same way every time. Have you seen this graph yet? I rest my case, the Sensei is useless for $-on-the-line FPS gaming. The pros only use that mouse because they are required to. A lot of SS sponsored teams have switched to Rivals now at least partly, anyway, and the reason why is very obvious.

L1m1t
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V LX ASUS DirectCU II GTX 770 OC Patriot G2 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Black Kingston SSDNow Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Windows 8.1 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE SteelSeries 6Gv2 MX Red Corsair TX650 NZXT Source 210 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Zowie FK1 Puretrak Talent ASUS Xonar DG Sennheiser PC350 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 Shure SRH440 Audio Technica ATH-M40x AKG K701 
AudioAudio
beyerdynamic DT770 AKG K550 
  hide details  
Reply
L1m1t
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V LX ASUS DirectCU II GTX 770 OC Patriot G2 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Black Kingston SSDNow Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Windows 8.1 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE SteelSeries 6Gv2 MX Red Corsair TX650 NZXT Source 210 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Zowie FK1 Puretrak Talent ASUS Xonar DG Sennheiser PC350 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 Shure SRH440 Audio Technica ATH-M40x AKG K701 
AudioAudio
beyerdynamic DT770 AKG K550 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

You are missing something...the ADNS-9500 has INCONSISTENT acceleration. Every swipe is going to land at a different point beyond the point you intended to land at because you are human and no one can perfectly swipe the same way every time. Have you seen this graph yet? I rest my case, the Sensei is useless for $-on-the-line FPS gaming. The pros only use that mouse because they are required to. A lot of SS sponsored teams have switched to Rivals now at least partly, anyway, and the reason why is very obvious.


The graph does not show everything you have to take in consideration surface, internal hardware, and firmware software implementation.
Adns-9500 is very consistent !! if you have the right surface and dpi steps used in incredements of 90.

Then you mentioned pro teams switching to rival aint half true.

For example NIP used at "Road to katowice" 2 xai mice.(avago 9500)

Get_right as usual and f0rest aswell seeing before with rival but now heading back to xai because shape is > as sensor performance and should always be rated like this.
Shape has more impact on aiming then the little bit sensor difference of the avago 9500 compared to the avago 3310.

Even better example in there team is Xizt with his steelseries Ikari, still not moved on to rival as you mentioned.
Shape is the biggest factor there aswell !!!

so saying sensei is useless in $ FPS is bull**** seeing the shape is very good

So I say it again.

acceleration is a preference !!! not a con!!!
+
shape/comfort < sensor performance
Edited by CtrlAltel1te - 3/26/14 at 4:10pm
post #25 of 38
Believe what you will but my own personal tests showed lots of variability on actual stop point with the usual swipe slowly then swipe quickly back, lining up precisely with the edge of the mousepad each time with BOTH cloth AND hard mats. Immediately upon switching to my G400, that problem was reduced significantly to within the expected +-0.5%, much more consistent. That's been my experience, I've never seen an implementation that actually fully mitigated the acceleration problem because it is inherent in the SROMs used in the 9500 and 9800. Firmware can only correct so much. I know I definitely couldn't deal with it anymore and was only lying to myself about the Sensei before I put it up on eBay. Useless mouse for low sensitivity FPS if you ask me, I'll never recommend it to anyone unless they can't find an optical to fit their needs. My opinion, anyway. The world's best players I'm sure can adjust enough to deal with it, fine. But why bother if you don't have to? In my case, the Avior shape is even more comfortable, gives you even more room on both sides of the mouse for fingers, It was a no brainer switching over to it, way better than the Rival too. I still think acceleration is a preference, but inconsistent acceleration which in my own tests is the ONLY kind of accel currently available VSCEL sensors exhibit, unless some manufacturer has found a way to make it consistent, is just bad no matter what your preference is.
L1m1t
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V LX ASUS DirectCU II GTX 770 OC Patriot G2 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Black Kingston SSDNow Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Windows 8.1 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE SteelSeries 6Gv2 MX Red Corsair TX650 NZXT Source 210 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Zowie FK1 Puretrak Talent ASUS Xonar DG Sennheiser PC350 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 Shure SRH440 Audio Technica ATH-M40x AKG K701 
AudioAudio
beyerdynamic DT770 AKG K550 
  hide details  
Reply
L1m1t
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V LX ASUS DirectCU II GTX 770 OC Patriot G2 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Black Kingston SSDNow Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Windows 8.1 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE SteelSeries 6Gv2 MX Red Corsair TX650 NZXT Source 210 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Zowie FK1 Puretrak Talent ASUS Xonar DG Sennheiser PC350 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 Shure SRH440 Audio Technica ATH-M40x AKG K701 
AudioAudio
beyerdynamic DT770 AKG K550 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

Believe what you will but my own personal tests showed lots of variability on actual stop point with the usual swipe slowly then swipe quickly back, lining up precisely with the edge of the mousepad each time with BOTH cloth AND hard mats. Immediately upon switching to my G400, that problem was reduced significantly to within the expected +-0.5%, much more consistent. That's been my experience, I've never seen an implementation that actually fully mitigated the acceleration problem because it is inherent in the SROMs used in the 9500 and 9800. Firmware can only correct so much. I know I definitely couldn't deal with it anymore and was only lying to myself about the Sensei before I put it up on eBay. Useless mouse for low sensitivity FPS if you ask me, I'll never recommend it to anyone unless they can't find an optical to fit their needs. My opinion, anyway. The world's best players I'm sure can adjust enough to deal with it, fine. But why bother if you don't have to? In my case, the Avior shape is even more comfortable, gives you even more room on both sides of the mouse for fingers, It was a no brainer switching over to it, way better than the Rival too. I still think acceleration is a preference, but inconsistent acceleration which in my own tests is the ONLY kind of accel currently available VSCEL sensors exhibit, unless some manufacturer has found a way to make it consistent, is just bad no matter what your preference is.

youre entire story consist of personal experience and reading this story makes youre decision logic to switch youre newest addition of the mionix.
I aint attacking you personal and ofc you know this its just that I picked this thread and made the comments I did to point out some mice like xai, sensei, logitech g9, g9x are very usefull mice.
Aswell for casual gamers as for pro's because there shape are good and the avago 9500 is not the real con there seeing still the sensor behaviour can be mastered.
post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltel1te View Post

youre entire story consist of personal experience and reading this story makes youre decision logic to switch youre newest addition of the mionix.
I aint attacking you personal and ofc you know this its just that I picked this thread and made the comments I did to point out some mice like xai, sensei, logitech g9, g9x are very usefull mice.
Aswell for casual gamers as for pro's because there shape are good and the avago 9500 is not the real con there seeing still the sensor behaviour can be mastered.

No I totally understand what you're trying to say. My argument is just that you can only master something that is imperfect to a particular degree that I believe is less than, well, mastering an optical sensor mouse, not considering the shape here.
L1m1t
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V LX ASUS DirectCU II GTX 770 OC Patriot G2 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Black Kingston SSDNow Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Windows 8.1 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE SteelSeries 6Gv2 MX Red Corsair TX650 NZXT Source 210 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Zowie FK1 Puretrak Talent ASUS Xonar DG Sennheiser PC350 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 Shure SRH440 Audio Technica ATH-M40x AKG K701 
AudioAudio
beyerdynamic DT770 AKG K550 
  hide details  
Reply
L1m1t
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V LX ASUS DirectCU II GTX 770 OC Patriot G2 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Black Kingston SSDNow Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Windows 8.1 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE SteelSeries 6Gv2 MX Red Corsair TX650 NZXT Source 210 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Zowie FK1 Puretrak Talent ASUS Xonar DG Sennheiser PC350 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 Shure SRH440 Audio Technica ATH-M40x AKG K701 
AudioAudio
beyerdynamic DT770 AKG K550 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltel1te View Post

youre entire story consist of personal experience and reading this story makes youre decision logic to switch youre newest addition of the mionix.
I aint attacking you personal and ofc you know this its just that I picked this thread and made the comments I did to point out some mice like xai, sensei, logitech g9, g9x are very usefull mice.
Aswell for casual gamers as for pro's because there shape are good and the avago 9500 is not the real con there seeing still the sensor behaviour can be mastered.


hmm, can u tell me overall, does Zowie EC1 eVo CL does have higher control or max speed as you said something like 4 m's?

just wondering, how it is, cause i' would say DA 2013 was really perfect, if there were no any smoothing effect or that prediction/acc.

If you would also compare, is Zowie EC1 eVo CL better than it?

thats all i wanted to know biggrin.gif
post #29 of 38
cannot remember where i read this - razors are not getting that good reviews, and this is from owners who have had them for a time and not by some reviewer whose used it for a few hrs.

talking about durability thumb.gif
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

No I totally understand what you're trying to say. My argument is just that you can only master something that is imperfect to a particular degree that I believe is less than, well, mastering an optical sensor mouse, not considering the shape here.

yes optical is easier to master but laser can be aswell and can even has its benifits in some gameplay above optical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelt116 View Post

hmm, can u tell me overall, does Zowie EC1 eVo CL does have higher control or max speed as you said something like 4 m's?

just wondering, how it is, cause i' would say DA 2013 was really perfect, if there were no any smoothing effect or that prediction/acc.

If you would also compare, is Zowie EC1 eVo CL better than it?

thats all i wanted to know biggrin.gif


DA2013 has a very good maximum malfunction speed is does not have prediction or acceleration it does have "smoothing" but its better to say latency.
Because if I aint mistaking all dpi steps get calculated from 4000 native dpi. It does it quite well but it will have a tiny bit latency wich most people really dont notice at all because there setup have other bottlenecks already with latency in it.
So if you want to pick up a Deathadder better to have a look at the black edition or any 3,5g if you really really want to be sure but if you want the newer rubber sidegripes just go for the da2013.

Then the zowie's max speeds are lower because they have a lower LOD wich they get with a custom lens they use native dpi steps but end up being weird because of the lens they use.
So not 400, 1000, 1800 or but 450/1150/2300 because of the lower LOD and less light emmiting at the tracking surface its natural the max malfunction speeds are lower.
But I dont think the speeds will be any problem for you seeing I am a CS player with sensitivity 2.0 on 400 dpi and had no problem playing with the eVo at sens 1.55 450 dpi. So thats really low. Something like 52.2 cm to make a 360*.

I cant say really wich one is the better mouse, I think shapewise the zowie feels better for palm grip and DA for clawgrip I myself use a fingertip grip and find then smaller mice better.
So EC2 the smaller version is better for my medium sized hands.
Tracking wise zowie feels good but so does the da feel very good only zowie feels a bit more responsive but da feels more controlled its difficult to explain but rahter they way I feel it.
At 1000hertz the DA will be more stable then zowies and DA will be able to handle more surfaces better for example white mousepads or very coloured onces will be less of a problem tracking wise.

Max speeds are for the Zowie (gotten from ino's review)
http://www.overclock.net/t/1450266/short-zowie-ec1-evo-cl-review/0_100

400 dpi 1000hertz, 3,66 meters per second
1200dpi 1000hertz, 3,21 meters per second
2200dpi, 1000hertz. 3,90 meters per second

400 dpi, 500hertz, 4 meter per second
1200dpi 500 hertz, 4,42 meter per second
2200 500 hertz, 4 meter per second

So 500hertz will give you 4meters per second wich is absoluty no bottleneck or you must be using like 80 cm for turning 360 degrees in fps games.

But remember the coating dont know if all batches they produced got it but seen this picture some times on the internet.

Edited by CtrlAltel1te - 3/27/14 at 2:08am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mice
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Which one should i choose?