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[WSJ] Facebook to Acquire Oculus - Page 36

post #351 of 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

Any form of monitoring will get hacked ou, but for how long? Principal. People seem to forget about this thing called principal and expectation of privacy... Even if law states you only have privacy in your bedroom/bathroom.

 

When using Facebook, I trade my "privacy" for services. It is a normal exchange, like any other, and has it's own supply/demand graph. There are those for whom privacy is worth more than what FB can offer in return, whereas I don't particularly care how well someone else knows me, unless they plan to use that information to disrupt my life. Am I important enough for that? Nowhere close.

 

It'll be hacked, then patched, then hacked back... I have no idea how Oculus plans to work, but afaik it is just a fancy monitor + input system. It requires the user to have software capable of understanding the input from the Rift and also something capable of rendering stereoscopic 3D to output to the Rift.

There'd need to be special software which you'd be forced to (or guided to) install for FB to intercept these things and in real time analyse them. That is what I imagine hackers would target.

 

This is pure speculation and I obviously do not condone breaking ToS and laws etc. but I don't imagine it'd be horribly difficult to do.

 

As I said on a different thread, FB makes $1B a year. Less than $2 per user. Let's imagine the cost savings of the rift being sold "at cost" (whatever that means) is >$10 - this saving is in exchange for your privacy as noted above. Would you be willing to pay $20 a year for no tracking/ads (in theory?).

Everyone benefits - those who like their privacy are happy so VR has greater adoption, they still pay less than otherwise. FB gets more money, and advertisers don't pay for ads to those who would ignore them anyway.

 

 

As above, I myself don't mind being data-mined and actually look forward to walking round virtual cities with giant billboards with tailored ads around. I don't believe FB would ruin the user experience by popping huge ads up in your face during loading screens/random times.

 

Edit: removed the term "tin foil hatters" as skupples pointed out it is insulting, and I apologise for it.


Edited by Moragg - 3/31/14 at 7:59am
post #352 of 383
Sad day when people who like their privacy are called tin foil hatters. Disgusting really. Its one the verge of being as over used as "troll."
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post #353 of 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

Sad day when people who like their privacy are called tin foil hatters. Disgusting really. Its one the verge of being as over used as "troll."

Edited out of the above as you are right, it was insulting and I apologise. There are probably a few other posts where I used it (no idea where) so I apologise for those too.

 

I understand people wanting their privacy, and given the option I would like it too. I won't try and argue this point as I suspect this is one of those arguments in which it is impossible to convince someone to switch over the internet.

 

Nevertheless, the point I am trying to make is:

If we were able to pay full price (what the rift would have cost before acquisition) and not get the data-mining, would anyone be against it? FB has only the incentive to make sure VR gets mass adoption, and at least in CV1 that means not scrimping on hardware, and then in later versions we can get other stuff and quite possibly hack out the data mining for those who like their privacy.

post #354 of 383
You give me 1440P OLED 9DOF Zero software requirements besides the head tracking software and GPU drivers and I'll buy 10 and give one to all my friends

Text to speech from my DerpPhone
Edited by skupples - 3/31/14 at 9:00am
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post #355 of 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

You give me 1440P OLED 9DOF Zero software requirements besides the head tracking software and GPU drivers and I'll by 10 and give one to all my friends

9 Degrees Of Freedom? Yaw, pitch, roll, translate in x, y and z.

What are the other three? Eyebrow movements?

Edit: Answered my own question below. I should probably learn to Google first, post second.
Edited by GingerJohn - 3/31/14 at 9:15am
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post #356 of 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

You give me 1440P OLED 9DOF Zero software requirements besides a game and GPU drivers and I'll by 10 and give one to all my friends

And sourcing one of these at a reasonable price pre-acquisition probably wouldn't have been the easiest thing to do.

 

As for the software requirements thing, even if they do need something to get it set up I can always just block its internet access with my firewall if I wanted and that would be problem solved. FB isn't dumb enough to have an "always on" internet requirement".

 

I still have fingers crossed that CV1 will get 1440p, and I believe it already has 9DOF.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

9 Degrees Of Freedom? Yaw, pitch, roll, translate in x, y and z.

What are the other three? Eyebrow movements?
That confused me as well, I think forward/back count as 2DOF. Otherwise I have no idea where 9DOF could come from.

 

Edit: GingerJohn has found the actual meaning of 9DOF below.


Edited by Moragg - 3/31/14 at 9:12am
post #357 of 383
Ah, something that makes a bit of sense:
Quote:
In this case the 9 DOF are from three sensors that each provide three feedback states; a three DOF accelerometer, a three DOF magnetometer and a three DOF gyroscope. 3+3+3=9. In the end the combined data cannot give you more than the position and orientation data of x/y/z/roll/pith/yaw. Velocity and acceleration are not considered additional DOF. They define rates of change of the position data.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321290

Talking about a satellite, but same deal. Three different devices with 3DOF each are used to track the position, which is where the 9DOF comes from. From the data of those three inputs you can get your actual position in 6DOF.

Edit: Another two sources which confirm that is correct:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
What Does 9 DOF Mean Then?

In the world of IMUs, some funny terminology has sprung up. There are numerous references to ’9 DOF’ IMUs, but this is rather confusing given that there are only 6 DOF total.

Basically many companies that build IMUs have coined the term 9 DOF in order to sell their products, but these do not refer to ‘real-life’ DOF. The 9 DOF comes from adding up the DOF that each type of sensor contained inside the IMU can detect. So if the IMU has an accelerometer that is able to detect 3 DOF, a gyroscope that can detect 3DOF and a magnetometer that can detect 3DOF then they call it a 9DOF IMU. That doesn’t correspond to reality because the 3 sensors measure the same 3 DOF (orientation only).

A 9 DOF IMU is potentially better than a 6 DOF IMU because it can use sensor fusion (mixing the data from different sensors) in order to improve the quality of the final output, but it will still not be able to detect translations.
http://www.roadtovr.com/introduction-positional-tracking-degrees-freedom-dof/

Quote:
DOF Discrepancy

Palmer Luckey calls the Adjacent Reality IMU a ’9 DOF’ (9 degrees of freedom) tracker, though he regrets to have to do so because it is a disingenuous description perpetuated by other IMU manufacturers.

‘Degrees of freedom’ describes the possible movements of an object. In reality there are only 6 degrees of freedom total, three of which come from rotation of an object (roll, pitch, yaw) and three which come from the translation of an object (forward/backward, left/right, up/down). All of these degrees of freedom can be quite accurately tracked with an accelerometer, magnetometer, and gyroscope.

Apparently some tracker makers like to add up the axes that these sensors measure (each one measures its particular value across all 3 axes) and thus they device the term ’9 DOF’. Others seem to claim that their trackers support positional tracking (ie: absolute position in 3D space) and call this 9 DOF as well; in reality they are only using dead-reckoning for absolute positional tracking which isn’t particularly useful due to its potential for errors or what is typically called ‘drift’. Luckey says he’s calling the Oculus Rift headtracker ’9 DOF’ so that people don’t think it lacks the features of other trackers which also claim, erroneously or not, ’9 DOF’.

In reality, the Oculus Rift headtracker is 6 DOF because it uses three sensors and can track roll, pitch yaw, as well as inertia when the unit moved forward/back, left/right, and up/down — the same capabilities of other ’9 DOF’ trackers.
http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-headtracker-adjacent-reality/

Edited by GingerJohn - 3/31/14 at 9:19am
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post #358 of 383
DK2 has an external IR camera that functions identical to trackIR 5 with 6 DOF that can be customized and accelerated. Because 1:1 movement is only cool in theory.
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post #359 of 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

DK2 has an external IR camera that functions identical to trackIR 5 with 6 DOF that can be customized and accelerated. Because 1:1 movement is only cool in theory.

The IR camera on the Rift is to correct for drift from the other sensors, it is not the primary source of positional data.

I wonder if greater than 1:1 movement would work in VR? If it doesn't cause simulator sickness it would come in handy for long Star Citizen/ Elite: Dangerous/ Enemy Starfighter sessions.
post #360 of 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aibohphobia View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

DK2 has an external IR camera that functions identical to trackIR 5 with 6 DOF that can be customized and accelerated. Because 1:1 movement is only cool in theory.

The IR camera on the Rift is to correct for drift from the other sensors, it is not the primary source of positional data.

I wonder if greater than 1:1 movement would work in VR? If it doesn't cause simulator sickness it would come in handy for long Star Citizen/ Elite: Dangerous/ Enemy Starfighter sessions.

 

Greater than 1:1 might be like the feeling of stepping off a treadmill but in reverse, where everything seems to be too slow.

 

It's not hard to imagine this causing some big problems, so I don't know if they could implement it for health/litigation reasons. People feel disorientated if the character is a different height, and those who play the game for extremely long periods of time could end up messing up how their brain interprets inner-ear signals.

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