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post #11 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

FX-4130 is Bulldozer. If you're set on a quad-core FX, spend the extra $14 that site wants for the FX-4300 and get a Piledriver core instead. Bulldozer just isn't worth it unless you overclock.
I'd agree, the 4300 has better core for core/ clock for clock performance, but it's only $5 cheaper than an FX 6300 for you, which brings it back to FX 6300 vs i3 4130. Is BF3/4, and rendering important for your friend? Get the FX 6300, is world of warcraft, world of tanks etc and energy efficiency important for him? Get the i3 4130.

It's a shame you don't have the Athlon 750k on that website, at £50 it nigh matches the FX 4300 which costs £80.
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post #12 of 45
Clock for clock, the FX-4130 is slower than the old system you built around the Phenom II 955. The fact the Zambezi/Vishera CPUs share floating point units between cores means almost nothing in gaming, but the fact that AMD increased pipeline depth in search of raw clock speed means almost everything. AMD did not get the clock speeds they were looking for out of Bulldozer, but were a bit better off with Piledriver because they upped performance/watt/clock with what is effectively a new stepping and their "clock mesh" technology. Then there is Bulldozer's tiny L1 cache and slow L2 cache that Piledriver improved upon by reducing latency across the board.

All said, seek out the FX-4300 or FX-6300 if you want to go AMD. I would not consider Bulldozer CPUs unless they were less than half as much as a Piledriver.

On the Intel side of things, it does not look good for your budget. The i3-4130 would be excellent in older games, and a few somehwat-newer lightly-threaded games such as Skyrim, but the real value in going Intel is for the upgrade path. AM3+ is a dead socket, where LGA 1150 is not quite yet halfway through it's life-cycle.

All that aside, looking prices from New Zealand on that site, NZ$600 is going to make a fairly humble PC.

Best I could do looking over that site for a few minutes:

CPU: FX 4300: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1462291, $142.91
RAM: 2 Sticks of 4GB 1600MHz: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1434504, $59.80
GPU: Sapphire R7 260X: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2506001 $195.70
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2P: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=881717 $44.85
CASE: Gigabyte GZ-M5: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1711353, $42.55
PSU: Cooler Master Elite Power 400W: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=482282, $43.69
SSD/HDD: WD Black 640GB: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=568623, $75.99

Make sure that motherboard is revision 4.0, so it can properly support the FX 4300. Power supply is so-so/cheap, case is cheap, only 2 DIMMs, no SSD, CL 11 ram, etc. The good news is that the thing should game well enough, even at 1080.

Comes out to $605.49.
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post #13 of 45
Unfortunately, at stock clocks the AMD options aren't as good as Haswell. The "competition" on the low end is generally AMD-CPU + HSF + VRM-heatsunk mobo + performance tuned; trades blows with Intel-CPU with OEM HSF on B85. On the intel side you pay more for the chip, on the AMD side you pay more for the stuff around the chip so that it can be performance tuned.

If you remove the performance tuning aspect on the AMD chips the low end ones aren't particularly competitive for gaming as too many existing games are sensitive to per-core performance, something that doesn't come into stride on PD till 4.7+ghz.
     
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post #14 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by M125 View Post

Clock for clock, the FX-4130 is slower than the old system you built around the Phenom II 955. The fact the Zambezi/Vishera CPUs share floating point units between cores means almost nothing in gaming, but the fact that AMD increased pipeline depth in search of raw clock speed means almost everything. AMD did not get the clock speeds they were looking for out of Bulldozer, but were a bit better off with Piledriver because they upped performance/watt/clock with what is effectively a new stepping and their "clock mesh" technology. Then there is Bulldozer's tiny L1 cache and slow L2 cache that Piledriver improved upon by reducing latency across the board.

All said, seek out the FX-4300 or FX-6300 if you want to go AMD. I would not consider Bulldozer CPUs unless they were less than half as much as a Piledriver.

On the Intel side of things, it does not look good for your budget. The i3-4130 would be excellent in older games, and a few somehwat-newer lightly-threaded games such as Skyrim, but the real value in going Intel is for the upgrade path. AM3+ is a dead socket, where LGA 1150 is not quite yet halfway through it's life-cycle.

All that aside, looking prices from New Zealand on that site, NZ$600 is going to make a fairly humble PC.

Best I could do looking over that site for a few minutes:

CPU: FX 4300: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1462291, $142.91
RAM: 2 Sticks of 4GB 1600MHz: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1434504, $59.80
GPU: Sapphire R7 260X: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2506001 $195.70
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2P: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=881717 $44.85
CASE: Gigabyte GZ-M5: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1711353, $42.55
PSU: Cooler Master Elite Power 400W: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=482282, $43.69
SSD/HDD: WD Black 640GB: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=568623, $75.99

Make sure that motherboard is revision 4.0, so it can properly support the FX 4300. Power supply is so-so/cheap, case is cheap, only 2 DIMMs, no SSD, CL 11 ram, etc. The good news is that the thing should game well enough, even at 1080.

Comes out to $605.49.

Something like this would probably serve your friend well, but do look on other sites for an Athlon 750k or 760k, the 750k is about equal to the FX 4300 yet 30% odd cheaper, and the 760k is also cheaper. You'd also be looking for an FM2 motherboard rather than the AM3+ you need with the FX.

I'd personally recommend avoiding the cheaper Cooler Master PSU's as I had one similar to that blow on me.
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post #15 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

something that doesn't come into stride on PD till 4.7+ghz.
The only game I can't run at ultra or high settings 60+fps on my 4GHz 8350 is world of tanks, including Rome 2, Far Cry 3, BF4, Skyrim (with multithread ini tweaks and not inside Markarth) and various Source games which tend to run at 333FPS+ maxed out. Where exactly are you getting 4.7GHz + from? If you're taking into account the single core performance of the i3, you should also realise it costs about 40% more than a 750k.
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post #16 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidNonsenze View Post

Something like this would probably serve your friend well, but do look on other sites for an Athlon 750k or 760k, the 750k is about equal to the FX 4300 yet 30% odd cheaper, and the 760k is also cheaper. You'd also be looking for an FM2 motherboard rather than the AM3+ you need with the FX.

I'd personally recommend avoiding the cheaper Cooler Master PSU's as I had one similar to that blow on me.

Definitely agree about cheap power supplies, but that site has terrifyingly bad prices on PSUs. The cheapest thing on there I'd normally recommend is a Corsair CX 430(m) and that alone is over $75. doh.gif

EDIT: I guess this is not that bad at $65?: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1490957
Nice Gold-rated Seasonic but only 350W and no PCIe power: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2359601

There are a few FSPs that look OK too.

I am guessing that these cheap power supplies are Haswell-compatible. I have never come across a power supply that would not run a Haswell-based system at all (low power states disabled, yes).

With the build below, you can swap the Cooler Master PSU with the cheap Corsair or nicer Seasonic, and drop back down to the R7 260X to stay in budget.

Here is a decidedly unbalanced Intel build:

Intel:

CPU: Pentium G3220: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2106900, $78.35
RAM: 2 Sticks of 4GB 1600MHz: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1434504, $59.80
GPU: Sapphire R7 265: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2515489 $241.00
---or Gigabyte 750 Ti: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2511309, $235.00
MOBO: ASRock H81M-DGS: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2135645, $68.55
CASE: Gigabyte GZ-M5: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1711353, $42.55
PSU: Cooler Master Elite Power 400W: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=482282, $43.69
SSD/HDD: WD Black 640GB: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=568623, $75.99

This system comes out to $609.93 with the R7 265 and $603.93 with the 750 Ti. The 750 Ti sips power, but is always a bit behind the more sturdily built 256-bit R7 265. The Intel system would perform well until it hits a game that leverages 4 threads; then the FX-4300 would start to pull ahead. Each core of the G3220 is still 25% stronger that the FX-4300, so at nearly half the price, it provides more value.

Choose your poison: potential CPU bottlenecks with the Intel, with a great upgrade path, and better GPU performance. Or fewer CPU bottlenecks and weaker GPU performance with the AMD. Odd reversal of roles there. biggrin.gif

Power cannot be cheap in New Zealand, and the G3220/750 Ti combo would provide the most performance per watt and heat up the room less when under stress. I'm sure your friend can manage dropping in an i5 when the time comes.
Edited by M125 - 3/27/14 at 11:36am
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post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by M125 View Post

Definitely agree about cheap power supplies, but that site has terrifyingly bad prices on PSUs. The cheapest thing on there I'd normally recommend is a Corsair CX 430(m) and that alone is over $75. doh.gif

EDIT: I guess this is not that bad at $65: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1490957

Here is a decidedly unbalanced Intel build:

Intel:

CPU: Pentium G3220: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2106900, $78.35
RAM: 2 Sticks of 4GB 1600MHz: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1434504, $59.80
GPU: Sapphire R9 265: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2515489 $241.00
---or Gigabyte 750 Ti: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2511309, $235.00
MOBO: ASRock H81M-DGS: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2135645, $68.55
CASE: Gigabyte GZ-M5: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1711353, $42.55
PSU: Cooler Master Elite Power 400W: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=482282, $43.69
SSD/HDD: WD Black 640GB: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=568623, $75.99

This system comes out to $609.93 with the R7 265 and $603.93 with the 750 Ti. The 750 Ti sips power, but is always a bit behind the more sturdily built 256-bit R7 265. The Intel system would perform well until it hits a game that leverages 4 threads; then the FX-4300 would start to pull ahead. Each core of the G3220 is still 25% stronger that the FX-4300, so at nearly half the price, it provides more value.

Choose your poison: potential CPU bottlenecks with the Intel, with a great upgrade path, and better GPU performance. Or fewer CPU bottlenecks and weaker GPU performance with the AMD. Odd reversal of roles there. biggrin.gif

Power cannot be cheap in New Zealand, and the G3220/750 Ti combo would provide the most performance per watt and heat up the room less when under stress. I'm sure your friend can manage dropping in an i5 when the time comes.

Unless you want your PC to double as a heater in winter and thus save electricity. biggrin.gif [/joking]

Those builds will be good for most games, but he really needs to ask your friend if he's a fan of Battlefield because that CPU will be a major bottleneck there. It does come down to individual needs.
Troubleshooter.
(11 items)
 
  
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AMD FX-8350 MSi 990XA-GD55 MSi Twin Frozr R9 280x Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz 
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Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM A USB drive I got for a tenner I occasionally p... Windows 8.1 AOC i2353 23 Inch IPS 1080P 60Hz. 
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XFX PRO650W Core edition. Logitech G400 from after they removed prediction. Tascam US-122 MKII Audio Interface. 
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Troubleshooter.
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Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM A USB drive I got for a tenner I occasionally p... Windows 8.1 AOC i2353 23 Inch IPS 1080P 60Hz. 
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XFX PRO650W Core edition. Logitech G400 from after they removed prediction. Tascam US-122 MKII Audio Interface. 
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post #18 of 45
Thread Starter 
Wow thanks guys especially M125 for those builds.

Sad I used to be right into this and know everything haha, but I haven't really been hard out reading stuff since Sandy.

I think I might push the Intel build and ask if they are willing to bump up the budget a bit for a better CPU.

Power isn't that bad so I don't think we need to worry about that side of things.

If you gun to your head had to chose, which build?
post #19 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidNonsenze View Post

The only game I can't run at ultra or high settings 60+fps on my 4GHz 8350 is world of tanks, including Rome 2, Far Cry 3, BF4, Skyrim (with multithread ini tweaks and not inside Markarth) and various Source games which tend to run at 333FPS+ maxed out. Where exactly are you getting 4.7GHz + from? If you're taking into account the single core performance of the i3, you should also realise it costs about 40% more than a 750k.

Well, at 4.6ghz, the world stops turning and all life as we know ends, and at 4.8ghz, global temps stabilize, we find a clean endless source of energy, and all human conflicts end wink.gif Obviously.

YMMV on where the "threshold" is for performance. In my experience, PD stops getting in my way in the 4.5-5ghz range in strategy games. Some people are happy with it at 3.5ghz, others beat it into submissions until it runs 6ghz for the novelty of of it.


The 760K at stock clocks or *slightly* over (~4.0-4.5ghz range) actually competes with the i3-4130 in highly parallel, integer instruction heavy workloads like compiling, trans-coding, etc. It's a great value chip for people who do this sort of work and could make for a fantastic ultra-budget workstation for someone who does software development and needs to run VMs, or even as a cheap video toaster. I want to make it clear here, that I recognize that the 760K is a really awesome chip at stock clocks in it's price class, when it is leveraged for what it is good at.

Real-time workload performance doesn't scale proportionally with parallelism. A great example of this would be to look at the performance difference between the FX-8320 and FX-6300 in gaming. The FX-8320 has 30% better total compute performance in parallel workloads, but there is no real-time workload (game) anywhere that scales 30% between these 2 chips. Another common example, the i7 vs i5, again, 30% improvement in compute performance, almost no performance scaling in most real-time workloads.

The 760K overclocked to 5ghz, actually has ~10-20% higher performance in non-real-time parallel workloads than an i3-4130, unfortunately, that additional compute performance is spread out across an architecture that has its "parallelism" laid out a bit differently than the i3. The i3 can achieve 75% of it's maximum compute throughput with just 2 threads. The 760K can only achieve 55% throughput under the same conditions. As such, the overclocked 760K and the i3-4130 actually wind up performing very similarly in real-time (gaming) workloads because the sensitivity to per-thread performance in these workloads winds up offsetting the on-paper advantages of the 760K.

In worst case conditions, the on-paper performance of the 760K at stock clocks is ~30% worse than the i3-4130. Unfortunately, due to the nature of real-time workloads, a 30% cut in compute throughput can actually have far more drastic effects on the final performance outcome because that 30% cut can actually be "cutting" into one of multiple jobs running within a thread, which can translate to far less draw-calls made and as such, dramatically lower FPS when the CPU bottlenecks. Due to the unusual nature of these workloads, in some CPU bound conditions, the i3-4130 will actually deliver ~double the FPS of the 760K at stock clocks.

To be clear, I am not saying that the 760K can't play games. In fact, most games it will perform absolutely fine at stock clocks, and in many cases there will be no difference at all between the i3 and 760K because there is no CPU bottleneck either way. There are SOME games, that are hyper-sensitive to cpu performance, especially per-thread performance. In those games, the i3 is the superior choice by a margin that may be worth the added cost.
     
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
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post #20 of 45
Thread Starter 
I have recommended the AMD build, for differing reasons. But I have also suggested expanding the budget a bit to looking to better Intel CPU's etc.
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