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Budget Gaming PC - Page 4

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilldawn View Post

Its not for me, its for a new build for a mate.

$600 was the original budget, but he said he could do a bit more, so maybe $750 - $800

But obviously with a bit more coin could go higher. I'm leaning towards getting a better CPU as the CPU in both builds seems to be low ish end.

If all you are seeking is raw frame rates, normally, you would upgrade the GPU first, and the PSU if it needed to be bumped up a notch. CPU and RAM would be third and fourth priorities.

Seeing how that Cooler Master PSU is/was not highly regarded, maybe a Corsair VS450 or VS550 would be better, depending on if you can get one in stock. It appears well liked on the Indian marketplace Flipkart.

It seems that prices jump around all the time on that aggregate site (Pricespy.co.nz). Here is what I can do now:

With the AMD build:
An extra $200 would be best put to use upgrading the PSU and GPU, as long as your friend has no higher aspirations for the system like upgrading to an FX 8350, overclocking the CPU, or adding another GPU.

I would stick with the VS550 for the AMD, as the FX-4300 draws more power than an i3-4130 and because the AMD platform is cheaper, you can afford more GPU.

CPU: FX-4300: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1462291, $142.55
RAM: 2 Sticks of 4GB 1600MHz: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2552748, $68.76
GPU: Galaxy GTX 760: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2154523, $360.36
---or Sapphire R9 270X: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2266020, $297.74
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2P: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=881717 $44.85
CASE: Gigabyte GZ-M5: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1711353, $42.55
PSU: Corsair VS550 550W: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1502635, $72.74
SSD/HDD: WD Black 640GB: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=568623, $77.77

With the GTX 760, the system comes out to $809.58, little over, but you get a GTX 760 tongue.gif
With the R9 270X, the system comes out to $746.96

With the Intel build:
An extra $200 would be best put to use upgrading the PSU, CPU, and GPU, as long as your friend has no higher aspirations for the system like upgrading to an unlocked K-series processor and overclocking or adding another GPU.

CPU: i3-4130: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2106974, $156.94
RAM: 2 Sticks of 4GB 1600MHz: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2552748, $68.76
GPU: Sapphire R9 270X: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2266020, $297.74
---or Sapphire R9 270: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2347161, $274.00
MOBO: ASRock H81M-DGS: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=2135645, $68.55
CASE: Gigabyte GZ-M5: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1711353, $42.55
PSU: Corsair VS550 550W: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1502635, $72.74
---or Corsair VS450 450W: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1490957, $57.33
SSD/HDD: WD Black 640GB: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=568623, $77.77

With the R9 270X and VS550, the system comes out to $786.62
With the R9 270 and VS450, the system comes out to $747.47



With all these systems, the GPU can be overclocked, of course, but I would stay away from overclocking the FX-4300 with that motherboard. The R9 270 provides the most frames per dollar of the three cards above, where the R9 270X and GTX 760 offer more overclocking headroom.
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post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Very well said M125,

Only thing I would add is that, each module in PD only has 1 scheduler for FP calculations that is "shared" across the 2 128bit FPUs, and unlike the CMT scaling on the instruction side, whose scheduler offers pretty decent scaling (+80%), on the FPU side the schedulers appear to be a more significant bottleneck under traditional 32-128bit FP workloads. At least for me I only see around +60% scaling going from 1 to 2 threads per module. YMMV.

Yep, right there is something AMD can improve upon in their next refresh. Improve the scheduler to better saturate the FPUs individually. AMD's FPU redesign, accounting for inefficiencies in the scheduler, does mean that two separate traditional Integer->FPU Scheduler->Single 128-bit FPUs would outperform AMD's design under most workloads. It seems odd that they couldn't maintain near-native performance, but there must be some overhead in translating requests to the separate FPUs.

Thanks!
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post #33 of 45
Thread Starter 
Thanks M125

Would the Intel being dual core really not limit things that much? I thought we left behind dual core years ago, they were fairly obsolete even when I got my latest sandy CPU.
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilldawn View Post

Thanks M125

Would the Intel being dual core really not limit things that much? I thought we left behind dual core years ago, they were fairly obsolete even when I got my latest sandy CPU.
Haswell i3's are vastly superior to Sandy i3's, by up to as much as 30% in some cases, but yes, in CPU intensive, multithreaded games an i3 4130 is going to hold a GTX 760 back. Even in newer strategy/MMO/top down RPG's like Rome 2, Archeage and Wasteland 2 the i3's are inadequate. You're really looking at a minimum of a 2500k/4430/8320 for high settings (why else would you get a 270x/GTX760?) in CPU intensive recent games like BF4, Crysis 3, Metro Last Light, Hitman etc which is out of your friends budget..
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post #35 of 45
Thread Starter 
Ah. So what about this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.95 @ Computer Lounge)
Motherboard: ASRock H81M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($81.00 @ Paradigm PCs)
Memory: Kingston HyperX T1 Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($65.30 @ Aquila Technology)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($74.00 @ PC Force)
Video Card: Asus Radeon R7 260 1GB Video Card ($207.00 @ Paradigm PCs)
Power Supply: Silverstone Strider Essential 400W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($78.00 @ Paradigm PCs)
Total: $755.25
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-04-03 11:49 NZDT+1300)

That NZ PC Part Picker is a good site, I think it doesnt quite find the lowest price but I can use it to build PC's then find parts cheaper on pricespy
post #36 of 45
The i3 marketed as a "dual core" can be just as misleading as the FX-6300 being marketed as a "six core."

The hyper-threaded i3, is a 4 "threaded" chip with 2xFPUs and 2 integer instruction cores. It is a scheduler/decoder heavy design that can saturate the available integer instruction cores and FPUs heavily at the same time.

By contrast, the FX-6300 is a 6 "threaded" chip that is heavier on resources and a little light on schedulers/decoders (6 integer instruction cores and 6 128 bit FPUs but only enough front end to run up to 6 threads across all that with relatively poor saturation. Even though the i3 is "marketed" as a "dual core" and the FX-6300 is "marketed" as a "six core," they are much closer in performance than we might expect. They often trade blows in real world workloads. It isn't until the FX-6300 is performance tuned that it performs better most of the time. (Even with the FX at 5ghz, there are still some scenarios where the i3 is still just as fast, sometimes even 10-15% faster).


It can all be a bit messy. It's my opinion that if the machine is going to be performance tuned, then the FX-6300 offers great value, but by the time you get into a CPU cooler that can get this thing up near 5ghz, you'll probably be into about the price class of an i5-4440, which, coincidentally, trades blows with the FX-6300@4.7+ghz.

It's my opinion that at stock clocks, the FX-8320 and FX-6300 are just too slow for gaming. All that parallelism counts for nothing when we have so much software that is still lightly threaded. Great workstation chips at stock clocks for people who leverage that parallelism and need access to special instructions and features at a lower price than intel. Not surprising, since these are in fact Opterons that have been slipped into an AM3+ body.
Edited by mdocod - 4/2/14 at 4:44pm
     
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post #37 of 45
Thread Starter 
Ah, Ok makes sense.

I'll grill the guy a bit more on exactly he wants to do with the end product, he has also just dropped off his old tower, so I'll what I can scavenge from it as well (the case at least), hopefully optical drive and HDD also.
post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

The i3 marketed as a "dual core" can be just as misleading as the FX-6300 being marketed as a "six core."

The hyper-threaded i3, is a 4 "threaded" chip with 2xFPUs and 2 integer instruction cores. It is a scheduler/decoder heavy design that can saturate the available integer instruction cores and FPUs heavily at the same time.

By contrast, the FX-6300 is a 6 "threaded" chip that is heavier on resources and a little light on schedulers/decoders (6 integer instruction cores and 6 128 bit FPUs but only enough front end to run up to 6 threads across all that with relatively poor saturation. Even though the i3 is "marketed" as a "dual core" and the FX-6300 is "marketed" as a "six core," they are much closer in performance than we might expect. They often trade blows in real world workloads. It isn't until the FX-6300 is performance tuned that it performs better most of the time. (Even with the FX at 5ghz, there are still some scenarios where the i3 is still just as fast, sometimes even 10-15% faster).


It can all be a bit messy. It's my opinion that if the machine is going to be performance tuned, then the FX-6300 offers great value, but by the time you get into a CPU cooler that can get this thing up near 5ghz, you'll probably be into about the price class of an i5-4440, which, coincidentally, trades blows with the FX-6300@4.7+ghz.

It's my opinion that at stock clocks, the FX-8320 and FX-6300 are just too slow for gaming. All that parallelism counts for nothing when we have so much software that is still lightly threaded. Great workstation chips at stock clocks for people who leverage that parallelism and need access to special instructions and features at a lower price than intel. Not surprising, since these are in fact Opterons that have been slipped into an AM3+ body.

You are right But take a look at this Chart on this page

http://www.overclock.net/t/1362591/lightbox/post/19332690/id/1302789

I bet you the 6300 matches the 8350 at the same speeds
Minimum FPS difference is only 5 fps and at max Fps the 8350 only pushes 8 frames more
I'd like to think 500 more hertz on the 6300 should make up that gap despite the lack of cores
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Altec Lansing ADA 995 
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FX Klasse
(25 items)
 
  
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AMD FX 8350 SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0 MSI R9 290X Lightning MSI R9 290X Lightning 
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Corsair  Corsair  g.skill sniper gaming series 16gb 2400mhz ddr3 WD 1 TB  
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WD 320 GB OCZ vertex 3 64GB Samsung 840 Pro 128GB Seagate 250 GB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Crucial MX300 525 GB Samsung SH-S223L Cooler Master Glacer 240l Windows 8.1 Pro N 64 bit 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit AOC 2462w Lenovo L2261wA Razer Lycosa 
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Antec HCG 750 Rosewill Future corsair vengeance m65 Turtle Beach Montego DDL 
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Altec Lansing ADA 995 
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post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

You are right But take a look at this Chart on this page

http://www.overclock.net/t/1362591/lightbox/post/19332690/id/1302789

I bet you the 6300 matches the 8350 at the same speeds
Minimum FPS difference is only 5 fps and at max Fps the 8350 only pushes 8 frames more
I'd like to think 500 more hertz on the 6300 should make up that gap despite the lack of cores


http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-Action-Battlefield_4-test-bf4_proz_2.jpg

Even at the same speeds, (100Hz off) the 8350 will beat the 6350 a lot of the time.
Troubleshooter.
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AMD FX-8350 MSi 990XA-GD55 MSi Twin Frozr R9 280x Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz 
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Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM A USB drive I got for a tenner I occasionally p... Windows 8.1 AOC i2353 23 Inch IPS 1080P 60Hz. 
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Troubleshooter.
(11 items)
 
  
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AMD FX-8350 MSi 990XA-GD55 MSi Twin Frozr R9 280x Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM A USB drive I got for a tenner I occasionally p... Windows 8.1 AOC i2353 23 Inch IPS 1080P 60Hz. 
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XFX PRO650W Core edition. Logitech G400 from after they removed prediction. Tascam US-122 MKII Audio Interface. 
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post #40 of 45
yeowch;NZ Y U price so high?
yeah..fx 6300 with upper-mid mobo + cheap RAM is gonna be it..
 
Thuban Powah!
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Samsung 840 pro Bong cooler / RASA waterblock Rosewill Capstone Gold 750 None 
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cheap! Newegg box panel ibeats with onboard. 
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AMD Phenom II X6 1075T w/2 cores locked @ 4.2+ M4a89GTD-Pro XFX Radeon HD 5870 8gb Samsung ddr3 1600 11-11-11-28@ 8-8-8-24 
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OCZ Agility2 40gb WD Blue 500GB Lite-On RASA waterblock 
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Windows & Linux Samsung 1080p 2 ms Dell Thermaltake TR2-800 
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Thuban Powah!
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon X5650 Asus P6X58D-E Sapphire HD 7950 G.Skill Trident-X 2600 CL10 
Hard DriveCoolingPowerCase
Samsung 840 pro Bong cooler / RASA waterblock Rosewill Capstone Gold 750 None 
MouseMouse PadAudio
cheap! Newegg box panel ibeats with onboard. 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 1075T w/2 cores locked @ 4.2+ M4a89GTD-Pro XFX Radeon HD 5870 8gb Samsung ddr3 1600 11-11-11-28@ 8-8-8-24 
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OCZ Agility2 40gb WD Blue 500GB Lite-On RASA waterblock 
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Windows & Linux Samsung 1080p 2 ms Dell Thermaltake TR2-800 
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Cooler Master Elite 330 (was) cheap 
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