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[Anandtech] AMD Announces FirePro W9100 - Page 5

post #41 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imouto View Post

I just took the available data from the GTX 750 Ti and its die size.

GTX 750 Ti = 148mm^2
GTX 660 = 221mm^2

Both perform about the same in a Cycles benchmark meaning a ~50% performance advantage per square mm. You should have to take into account the massive memory bandwidth disadvantage the GTX 750 Ti has.

The midrange GM104 should have about the same performance as the current GK110 in Cycles.

If compute performance is reserved for the big die like we already seen with Kepler and the GTX 750 Ti is crippled the GM110 will be a monster in Cycles.

Not arguing here but 50% for the GK110 variants of Maxwell..no way not even on 20nm
post #42 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemer View Post

Not arguing here but 50% for the GK110 variants of Maxwell..no way not even on 20nm

True. But there are some really major architectural changes which also come with maxwell...
post #43 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

What I still cant understand is why can't they release consumer cards with 6x display-port?

This! For the love of all that is holy, this! What is the problem with making a consumer grade card with 6 display ports and throwing in an adapter for the folks that need other outputs.
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post #44 of 110
Firepros are known for being pretty good at gaming, normally equal(sometimes better) then their consumer version.

I wonder how this card will fare in that regard.
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post #45 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanim View Post

Firepros are known for being pretty good at gaming, normally equal(sometimes better) then their consumer version.

I wonder how this card will fare in that regard.

I'm sure this one will fare very well in gaming, however, like all pro grade products, it will cost a bajillion dollars.
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post #46 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanim View Post

Firepros are known for being pretty good at gaming, normally equal(sometimes better) then their consumer version.

I wonder how this card will fare in that regard.

Probably a little worse than the 290X; it'll probably be downclocked a bit due to having the FP64 fully enabled, and the VRAM might be clocked a bit lower as well.
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post #47 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imouto View Post

I just took the available data from the GTX 750 Ti and its die size.

GTX 750 Ti = 148mm^2
GTX 660 = 221mm^2

Both perform about the same in a Cycles benchmark meaning a ~50% performance advantage per square mm. You should have to take into account the massive memory bandwidth disadvantage the GTX 750 Ti has.

The midrange GM104 should have about the same performance as the current GK110 in Cycles.

If compute performance is reserved for the big die like we already seen with Kepler and the GTX 750 Ti is crippled the GM110 will be a monster in Cycles.
Those aren't hard gains they are from cutting back double precision as they should on consumer chips.

Nvidia fixed some major bottlenecks by making smaller clusters with more resources attatched the arch hasn't radically changed.


The reason I bring this up is:
GM110 for consumers will most likely be based on a Tesla chip therefore gimping double precision isn't done on a hardware level. The gimping is software based (even though performed by hardware) it doesn't change the internal layout. The only thing gained from it is that because running double precision shaders at single precision uses less power they can clock them higher. (See clock advantage GK110 consumer versus same TDP Tesla)

Even while Tesla's are on cherry picked chips they still need a much lower clock to get the TDP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

I see it otherwise.

They noticed their chip failed to beat NVIDIA -> They overclocked it before reaching the consumer (for the cooling system it had).

Come on, it's obvious.

They even gave cherry picked versions to reviewers.


It was especially embarrassing that it couldn't even beat the 780 regular. Someone messed up.
Failed to beat?
They are sold out everywhere...

R9 290 is the performance/dollar crown in mutli gpu there is nothing that beats it besides the 290x at 4K it is untouchable so what are you talking about.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290/26.html

As you can see it roflstomps even with launch drivers while the 780 is 100 dollar more expensive. (this review was made while the card was still thermal throtteling due to the bad cooler)
On the next page you can see it being a little less power efficient then the 780 but a normal cooler would reduce the power consumption by 30W or so under load.

The Hawaii cards are a win and the tradeoff to go with a smaller die and have higher power density has payed of for AMD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by axiumone View Post

This! For the love of all that is holy, this! What is the problem with making a consumer grade card with 6 display ports and throwing in an adapter for the folks that need other outputs.
Indeed just do all DP and add in adapter I know those don't cost jack when mass produced.
Edited by maarten12100 - 3/26/14 at 5:58pm
post #48 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by boot318 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

AMD basically did the mistake of making the 290 chip smaller than needed. They wanted to save wafer costs but obviously 780/780 Ti's performance/price shows that's what most gamers that care a lot about performance/cost would go to, even if not for the Ti, definitely for the plain (especially after the price drop, even if AMD pushed it).

I won't even comment on the Titan brand. I would be ashamed to have one. What a rip off it keeps confirming to be.


The chip would just consumer more power and get even hotter if it were bigger. The "Hawaii Cores" have the potential to be great, but AMD really needs to fix their leaky chips (GPUs and A/CPUs).

Firstoff, I don't think you understand that leakage in a chip is a good thing, it basically means higher clocks. Low leakage chips are only good for improving power consumption. Notice how the low leakage chips all end up in low performance mobile parts?

But you also forget that Hawaii is much smaller die than GK110. AMD is very close to GK110 performance, if they were the same size, GK110 would be destroyed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imouto View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemer View Post

Yeah and Tegra was suppose to outperform Core2Duo..

I just took the available data from the GTX 750 Ti and its die size.

GTX 750 Ti = 148mm^2
GTX 660 = 221mm^2

Both perform about the same in a Cycles benchmark meaning a ~50% performance advantage per square mm. You should have to take into account the massive memory bandwidth disadvantage the GTX 750 Ti has.

The midrange GM104 should have about the same performance as the current GK110 in Cycles.

If compute performance is reserved for the big die like we already seen with Kepler and the GTX 750 Ti is crippled the GM110 will be a monster in Cycles.

Beating Kepler in Cycles and GPGPU isn't going to be hard. In fact, Kepler saw a pretty big regression in performance compared to fermi in GPGPU. It isn't always a regression, but if I remember correctly, it's a massive regression in things that use dual precision, like LuxRender:



Nvidia might do just fine with getting claiming a 50% increase, but it'd still be the same speed as GTX 580 in some situations, even if Nvidia's statement is 100% true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by boot318 View Post

The chip would just consumer more power and get even hotter if it were bigger. The "Hawaii Cores" have the potential to be great, but AMD really needs to fix their leaky chips (GPUs and A/CPUs).

I see it otherwise.

They noticed their chip failed to beat NVIDIA -> They overclocked it before reaching the consumer (for the cooling system it had).

Come on, it's obvious.

They even gave cherry picked versions to reviewers.


It was especially embarrassing that it couldn't even beat the 780 regular. Someone messed up.

You forget that the point of Hawaii was to come very close to GK110 performance while having a significantly smaller die size, which means it's cheaper to produce. AMD also nearly always builds redundancy into their chips. Some of you are correct, Hawaii has more shaders than what you can get. But AMD does this to improve yields.

Whether it actually worked or not is highly debatable. AMD has been losing market share and perhaps they are re-evaluating their strategy of offering more value across the board and realizing that they need absolute performance. Perhaps that's the point of Vesuvius?

But I don't know where you're getting your numbers from. Hawaii is extremely competitive with GK110 and it's far from a blowout.

A blowout is more like ATI 2000 series or Nvidia FX series. GK110 and Hawaii are both extremely good gaming GPUs. However as far as professional market goes, Kepler was basically Nvidia removing what they could to get power consumption down. So if AMD can get more support for GCN, they should be a serious threat to Quadro and Tesla.
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post #49 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Firstoff, I don't think you understand that leakage in a chip is a good thing, it basically means higher clocks. Low leakage chips are only good for improving power consumption. Notice how the low leakage chips all end up in low performance mobile parts?

But you also forget that Hawaii is much smaller die than GK110. AMD is very close to GK110 performance, if they were the same size, GK110 would be destroyed.
Beating Kepler in Cycles and GPGPU isn't going to be hard. In fact, Kepler saw a pretty big regression in performance compared to fermi in GPGPU. It isn't always a regression, but if I remember correctly, it's a massive regression in things that use dual precision, like LuxRender:



Nvidia might do just fine with getting claiming a 50% increase, but it'd still be the same speed as GTX 580 in some situations, even if Nvidia's statement is 100% true.
You forget that the point of Hawaii was to come very close to GK110 performance while having a significantly smaller die size, which means it's cheaper to produce. AMD also nearly always builds redundancy into their chips. Some of you are correct, Hawaii has more shaders than what you can get. But AMD does this to improve yields.

Whether it actually worked or not is highly debatable. AMD has been losing market share and perhaps they are re-evaluating their strategy of offering more value across the board and realizing that they need absolute performance. Perhaps that's the point of Vesuvius?

But I don't know where you're getting your numbers from. Hawaii is extremely competitive with GK110 and it's far from a blowout.

A blowout is more like ATI 2000 series or Nvidia FX series. GK110 and Hawaii are both extremely good gaming GPUs. However as far as professional market goes, Kepler was basically Nvidia removing what they could to get power consumption down. So if AMD can get more support for GCN, they should be a serious threat to Quadro and Tesla.

Agreed that Hawaii is the better overall architecture however Hawaii would have benefited more with a bigger die, amazing how they packaged it all in a die that's 100mm2 + smaller than GK110 however. Anyway I am sticking with my 780TI till stacked RAM comes!
post #50 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by axiumone View Post

This! For the love of all that is holy, this! What is the problem with making a consumer grade card with 6 display ports and throwing in an adapter for the folks that need other outputs.

This gen is especially sad in this regard as there is not even non-reference designs with 4+ DP's. Last gen there were at least those three 7870's with 6x DP in consumer lineup. Although even in last gen there was no high end card with 6x DP. It's as if it's by designs to force people who need 6 DP to go firepro as only option.
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