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[TweakTown] World's first 6TB Helium HDD - Page 9

post #81 of 130
Ah ok thanks for the information.
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post #82 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Density.

Nitrogen is only slightly less dense than air so you wouldn't be able to reduce the wind resistance of the platters by much, which is what allows them to be packed tighter together. Helium is a lot less dense than air, which is why they use it.

Especially since air is 78% nitrogen anyways.
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post #83 of 130
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

What a specialist taking Duckie's posts out of context you are.

Thanks for noticing, i was wondering if anyone else noticed that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OcN13 View Post

Wow the op is so dumb and sucks at trolling.

I think I'm doing quite well, thank you.
post #84 of 130
What about Argon? Its denser then air and it's pretty common. Might be more expensive then Hydrogen and it would act as an insulator... but still, should be ok.
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post #85 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaughtahouse View Post

What about Argon? Its denser then air and it's pretty common. Might be more expensive then Hydrogen and it would act as an insulator... but still, should be ok.

You haven't been paying attention. As you said, argon is denser than air. The whole point was to use a gas that is less dense than air to reduce drag on the platters.
     
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post #86 of 130
No I havent, I looked a page back and all I saw was people ripping on the OP. Ok LESS dense. My bad. Scratch the argon tongue.gif
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post #87 of 130
Wait... Somebody tried to argue with Duckie ON PURPOSE?! eek.gif There's a sure-fire way to lose a debate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

stop pushing HDD capacities, time to intro 10K rpm 3.5 HDD as mainstream.

They did have those. I want to see 1.8" drives make a comeback. 20 000+RPM. Maybe even cram two in the 3.5" form-factor we all know and love! Or better: 20 000RPM, 2.5" form-factor, and 128GiB of NAND for caching!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Density.

Nitrogen is only slightly less dense than air so you wouldn't be able to reduce the wind resistance of the platters by much, which is what allows them to be packed tighter together. Helium is a lot less dense than air, which is why they use it.

Hydrogen would actually be a better choice for these reasons, it is less dense than helium and has good heat transfer properties, it is also cheaper and has better availability. Large generators are cooled with hydrogen gas for these reasons. However there are significant issues with hydrogen which prevent its use for HDDs - it is hard to seal (can even permeate steel plate) and can cause problems with material selection due to hydrogen embrittlement. The flammability isn't actually that big an issue.

Hydrogen is really, really easy to get. Take water, stick a battery in it, and harvest the bubbles. Release the heavy gas to the atmosphere - that's diatomic oxygen and possibly ozone - and keep the light stuff - that's diatomic hydrogen, which is slightly more than half as dense as helium.

Interesting point regarding embrittlement. I was not aware of that phenomenon, which is definitely not good for metal devices like HDDs. You could maybe use a sacrificial metal, like how chromium is sometimes used on boats around steel so it, not the iron, oxidizes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaughtahouse View Post

No I havent, I looked a page back and all I saw was people ripping on the OP. Ok LESS dense. My bad. Scratch the argon tongue.gif

You are forgiven. Actually, argon isn't too much heavier; it's about 30-40% heavier or so. Since nitrogen and oxygen are diatomic elements, they're 28 and 32 grams, respectively, per mole in their gaseous forms. The elements themselves are 14 and 16, but the gas particles consist of two atoms each. Neon would be about 30-40% lighter, but I am unsure of how common it is.
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post #88 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

...Interesting point regarding embrittlement. I was not aware of that phenomenon, which is definitely not good for metal devices like HDDs. You could maybe use a sacrificial metal, like how chromium is sometimes used on boats around steel so it, not the iron, oxidizes...

You are thinking of zinc and magnesium anodes which are often clamped to prop shafts to prevent corrosion. Chromium would be useless for that.

Ironically, the chrome plating process (usually copper covered by nickel covered by a near transparent layer of chromium) introduces hydrogen embrittlement. Chromed parts have to be heat soaked to drive off the hydrogen.
     
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post #89 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

You are thinking of zinc and magnesium anodes which are often clamped to prop shafts to prevent corrosion. Chromium would be useless for that.

Ironically, the chrome plating process (usually copper covered by nickel covered by a near transparent layer of chromium) introduces hydrogen embrittlement. Chromed parts have to be heat soaked to drive off the hydrogen.

Nope, definitely not what I said! I, um, said, uh, this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

You could maybe use a sacrificial metal, like how SOME PERIOD 3 TRANSITION METALS is sometimes used on boats around steel so it, not the iron, oxidizes.

tongue.gif That's probably right. Is it that chrome plating that doesn't react with oxygen or water in general? Magnesium is a very active metal, so it's a good sacrificial anode. However, it reacts reasonably quickly with water. I'm not sure how effective it would be in water since it reacts to form Mg(OH)2, albeit not nearly as quickly as some of the other alkaline earth metals or the alkali metals form their hydroxides in water. Zinc on the other hand is probably safe, though I've forgotten exactly how it reacts. Wikipedia has an activity series I'm sure, but I'm too lazy tonight.

Come to think of it, aluminium might be a good option to resist hydrogen embrittlement. Elemental aluminium nearly instantly reacts with the air and forms a thin coating of aluminium oxide. Instead of crumbling away like, for example, iron oxide, it forms a protective layer around the elemental metal inside and retains its structural integrity.
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post #90 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

...I'm not sure how effective (magnesium) would be in water since it reacts to form Mg(OH)2, albeit not nearly as quickly as some of the other alkaline earth metals or the alkali metals form their hydroxides in water...

Just about every water heater has a magnesium anode in it to prevent corrosion of of the steel tank.

Frankly, the danger of hydrogen embrittlement isn't really all that great of a danger. There are plenty of alloys that aren't susceptible.
Edited by Lady Fitzgerald - 3/28/14 at 6:51pm
     
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Kingston HyperX 32GB (8 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDR... 128GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 
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4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD LG 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Inter... COOLER MASTER GeminII S524 120mm Long Life Slee... 
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Windows 7 Ultimate 3 x Asus VG248QE Vizio VO320E 32" TV Logitech G510s 
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Corsair HX750W Antec Two Hundred v2 Logitech M525 with Unifying Receiving Corsair SP2500 2.1 Speakers 
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ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels 24-... LSI 9211-8i HBA card HooToo® HT-CR001 3.5" PCI-E to USB 3.0 Multi-in... StarTech HSB220SAT25B 2 Drive 2.5in Trayless Ho... 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TweakTown] World's first 6TB Helium HDD