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Need help with ubuntu update for ubuntu 12.04 lts[Solved] - Page 5

post #41 of 59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

@DJ- I applaud your industriousness and can-do attitude. It's a great way to learn Linux even if it does flirt with "crash and burn". Sometimes recovering from those teaches the most. Linux was originally designed by and for people like you, old skool hackers looking for clever ways to do playful things and learn in the process. Keep it up. Also, please do report back how things go with SolydK. It will be valuable to many but especially those who have 2 years or less in Linux. As much as you are "messing about" if it works well for you it should encourage average users that just want something simple and solid.... and fast, and especially that does a good job with gaming.

PS Don't let CaptBlame's negativity make you too defensive. Most here are really helpful. I have to remind myself of that from time to time, myself smile.gif

I am 25 years old so there is much i dont know but i do know that you can not know anything about linux and still solydk will feel so natural to you. The only difficulty would be during the installation when you create your partitions as that got a bit confusing because its pretty simple and basic whereas i was expecting complexity. Other than that i am trying to fix this pipeline issue with the gpu's

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post #42 of 59
You're right in what you say about Linux is highly customisable, but I'm afraid that you're not right saying that anything is possible. This is due to differing dependencies between different distros (and different versions of the same distro). I love analogies, so here is one that I know and love - cars:

Different Linux distros are like different cars. Ubuntu might be GM, Debian might be Fiat, Slackware might be Ford, Fedora might be Nissan, etc. They are all cars, and they are all Linux. That much, they have in common. But the components they use aren't compatible with each other. Some might be - if Ubuntu is GM, then the derivatives will share common components (true in the car & Linux). But not all components will be compatible off the shelf.

When using the package manager, that is the same as walking into a motor factors, and buying the parts off the shelf. If you buy a Ford steering wheel, it won't fit in a Toyota. Thus, you can't take a Fedora package and install it on Debian. If you have your own manufacturing equipment (3D printer, milling machine, etc), and you had the plans for the Ford steering wheel, that still wouldn't help as it still won't fit. Likewise, compiling the package from Fedora source wouldn't work as the Fedora patches & dependencies aren't the same.

If you were a skilled enough engineer, and able to modify the parts/packages yourself, you could make them fit. Take something even more complicated like a cylinder head - nothing says you couldn't take a Toyota cylinder head, and machine it in such a way that it'll fit a Ford block. Likewise, if you take, I don't know, the SteamOS X server, nothing says you can't patch it in such a way that it'll run in Debian, but MAN that is a lot of work, and for what? It doesn't really benefit the community, so it's unlikely your patches would be accepted upstream. Note this is just an example - I don't know if SteamOS' X server is different, but I had to choose one package for an example tongue.gif

Anyway, hopefully this long post is clear, and I haven't lost you in the process, lol
"The devil is in the details" as they say - Linux may be Linux, but one distro's components aren't the same as another.
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post #43 of 59
*cough* bedrock linux *cough*
I think anything is possible. These guys might just have the talent and creativity to close those gaps... without introducing another standard.
    
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post #44 of 59
Hmm, that's an interesting concept - kinda like a VM but implemented at a much lower level, in a fragmented but transparent way. Like, application-level virtualisation as opposed to operating system level. Hopefully it has the performance & stability make it to release. Interesting idea thumb.gif
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post #45 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

You're right in what you say about Linux is highly customisable, but I'm afraid that you're not right saying that anything is possible. This is due to differing dependencies between different distros (and different versions of the same distro). I love analogies, so here is one that I know and love - cars:

Different Linux distros are like different cars. Ubuntu might be GM, Debian might be Fiat, Slackware might be Ford, Fedora might be Nissan, etc. They are all cars, and they are all Linux. That much, they have in common. But the components they use aren't compatible with each other. Some might be - if Ubuntu is GM, then the derivatives will share common components (true in the car & Linux). But not all components will be compatible off the shelf.

When using the package manager, that is the same as walking into a motor factors, and buying the parts off the shelf. If you buy a Ford steering wheel, it won't fit in a Toyota. Thus, you can't take a Fedora package and install it on Debian. If you have your own manufacturing equipment (3D printer, milling machine, etc), and you had the plans for the Ford steering wheel, that still wouldn't help as it still won't fit. Likewise, compiling the package from Fedora source wouldn't work as the Fedora patches & dependencies aren't the same.

If you were a skilled enough engineer, and able to modify the parts/packages yourself, you could make them fit. Take something even more complicated like a cylinder head - nothing says you couldn't take a Toyota cylinder head, and machine it in such a way that it'll fit a Ford block. Likewise, if you take, I don't know, the SteamOS X server, nothing says you can't patch it in such a way that it'll run in Debian, but MAN that is a lot of work, and for what? It doesn't really benefit the community, so it's unlikely your patches would be accepted upstream. Note this is just an example - I don't know if SteamOS' X server is different, but I had to choose one package for an example tongue.gif

Anyway, hopefully this long post is clear, and I haven't lost you in the process, lol
"The devil is in the details" as they say - Linux may be Linux, but one distro's components aren't the same as another.

there is what you are missing though we all know there are dependancies but that is the part of the job. figure out what is compatible with it and see if you can apply certain stuff in a different method. but that is agreed upon as being the biggest part of the task i did not say i will make this os into steamos. I said i would make a hybrid os from both and this is for me and nobody else. it is my experiment and i knot what i am doing as i have accomplished it with ubuntu and was almost done with what was compatible( more would work if they ditch unity). It is the difficulty that makes it fun for me as i am learning the ins and outs of what can and cant be done. you can merge more than you think and it all depends on the base really. In the end though i am not transferring the base just most of the stuff added to wheezy to make it steamos and that is not impossible as i keep stating. Its only impossible when you state it is impossible and dont try doing it. what is the point of linux if you aren't there to do hard to do things? We all know unix was made for programmers and using that knowledge it is simply made for you to do the impossible in a controlled environment. you just have to be willing to reinstall many times. hence why i have 3 os'es as i break installations quite often.

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post #46 of 59
That's fair enough, it's your system and you are entitled to break it in any way you see fit - it is your freedom under open-source operating systems smile.gif

You don't have to be a programmer to enjoy Linux though - would you rather all those people who aren't technical use Windows?? I personally welcome a world where everyone is running an open-source OS, regardless of their hardware or experience.
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post #47 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

That's fair enough, it's your system and you are entitled to break it in any way you see fit - it is your freedom under open-source operating systems smile.gif

You don't have to be a programmer to enjoy Linux though - would you rather all those people who aren't technical use Windows?? I personally welcome a world where everyone is running an open-source OS, regardless of their hardware or experience.

i didn't say you had to be a programmer i said thats why unix was developed and i am saying what a better way for people to learn than to take advantage of the ease and customizability of linux. that means its for everyone to try what they will and dont be afraid to start over as that is the difference between linux and windows. you are saying you cant do this and you cant do that or you will mess up your os and i am saying that is a windows metality as in i have to do things this way or else i will have to reinstall. you could be more interested in how i am going about doing things as the process is really interesting in itself and the results are awesome.

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post #48 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

would you rather all those people who aren't technical use Windows?? I personally welcome a world where everyone is running an open-source OS, regardless of their hardware or experience.
Actually, quite often my answer would be "Yes!" Not all the time, but often. The influx of so many people who have used windows for so many years, coupled with the learning curve necessary in the deeply configurable environment that is Linux, has resulted in distros catering to their whining and the incorporation of many Windows' "features" and not always even the best ones.

Conversely Windows has benefited dramatically from Linux and FOSS and not only in simple apps on top ported for Windows. Did you know that Windows now has Package Managers? and really good ones! Another example is networking. MS-DOS started as a standalone only system. Initially MS wrote a compatible networking protocol of their own. It sucked but it worked. Novell and a few others adapted existing protocols and made some improvements. Once MS abandoned DOS-based they went to a real TCP/IP stack but as is so common with MS they altered it and it too sucked. (For reference to MS "improvements" look up MS's altering of one single bit IN THE NAME! of extended partitions just to create incompatibility with everyone else) Now there is lots of *nix-based improvements in Windows, including the TCP/IP stack.

Every now and then I wonder who is "getting the short end of the stick". One thing seems a safe bet. We are about to find out since it appears deep changes are in effect on almost all Linux that will all come to fruition for good or ill in 2014-2015. Checkout Docker.

Totally OT - I like your newish avatar. Do you play? and do you play Fender as pictured? Tube or solid-state?
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post #49 of 59
I am interested in how you are improving on your OS, which bits you are pulling in from SteamOS or other sources, and exactly what you have had to do to make them work. A few years ago, I started an Arch-based project, where I was custom compiling the OS, optimising for the Atom-based netbook it was on. It was good fun, and I learned A LOT about Linux. It was going great, then one day, something in Xfce or the X server itself got hosed, and I was left without a working system. No amount of reinstalling the X server & GUI was fixing it, something had failed and it was beyond my abilities to fix it. Not to mention every update took ages to re-compile. It was at this point, that I suddenly appreciated the pre-built distro like Ubuntu & the like. That someone else has done the work needed to get me the desktop I needed, and I could just switch it on, and it work. Sure, I was sacrificing performance, but performance counts for nothing if your system isn't usable/is busted. I wouldn't take back my time with Arch, it was so vital as a learning experience for me. However, just how a mechanic doesn't spend his life dismantling his car to make it go faster, only to find that sometimes he can't get it rebuilt in time - sometimes, having someone else provide stability is nice.

The bottom line in my opinion, is "each to their own". THAT, is the ultimate freedom in software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

Totally OT - I like your newish avatar. Do you play? and do you play Fender as pictured? Tube or solid-state?

I'm actually a keyboard/synth player, but I couldn't find an avatar for that smile.gif
Edited by chemicalfan - 3/28/14 at 9:06am
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post #50 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post


Actually, quite often my answer would be "Yes!" Not all the time, but often. The influx of so many people who have used windows for so many years, coupled with the learning curve necessary in the deeply configurable environment that is Linux, has resulted in distros catering to their whining and the incorporation of many Windows' "features" and not always even the best ones.

Conversely Windows has benefited dramatically from Linux and FOSS and not only in simple apps on top ported for Windows. Did you know that Windows now has Package Managers? and really good ones! Another example is networking. MS-DOS started as a standalone only system. Initially MS wrote a compatible networking protocol of their own. It sucked but it worked. Novell and a few others adapted existing protocols and made some improvements. Once MS abandoned DOS-based they went to a real TCP/IP stack but as is so common with MS they altered it and it too sucked. (For reference to MS "improvements" look up MS's altering of one single bit IN THE NAME! of extended partitions just to create incompatibility with everyone else) Now there is lots of *nix-based improvements in Windows, including the TCP/IP stack.

Every now and then I wonder who is "getting the short end of the stick". One thing seems a safe bet. We are about to find out since it appears deep changes are in effect on almost all Linux that will all come to fruition for good or ill in 2014-2015. Checkout Docker.

Totally OT - I like your newish avatar. Do you play? and do you play Fender as pictred? Tube or solid-state? 

i like this as i did notice that after using linux i was more able to manage my windows os better andi have learned so much about what happens behind the scenes. My next guitar hopefully will be the jerry cantrell signature edition as i want the simplicity as its more comfortable to me. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

I am interested in how you are improving on your OS, which bits you are pulling in from SteamOS or other sources, and exactly what you have had to do to make them work. A few years ago, I started an Arch-based project, where I was custom compiling the OS, optimising for the Atom-based netbook it was on. It was good fun, and I learned A LOT about Linux. It was going great, then one day, something in Xfce or the X server itself got hosed, and I was left without a working system. No amount of reinstalling the X server & GUI was fixing it, something had failed and it was beyond my abilities to fix it. Not to mention every update took ages to re-compile. It was at this point, that I suddenly appreciated the pre-built distro like Ubuntu & the like. That someone else has done the work needed to get me the desktop I needed, and I could just switch it on, and it work. Sure, I was sacrificing performance, but performance counts for nothing if your system isn't usable/is busted. I wouldn't take back my time with Arch, it was so vital as a learning experience for me. However, just how a mechanic doesn't spend his life dismantling his car to make it go faster, only to find that sometimes he can't get it rebuilt in time - sometimes, having someone else provide stability is nice.

The bottom line in my opinion, is "each to their own". THAT, is the ultimate freedom in software.
I'm actually a keyboard/synth player, but I couldn't find an avatar for that smile.gif

yes this i am agreeing with though as enorbert2 said its those windows features that are being brought to linux that killed my ubuntu installation

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seagate barracuda  seagate barracuda seagate barracuda seagate barracuda 
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