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[NewScientist] Gunshot Victims to be suspended between life and death - Page 7

post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

Believe what you will, but I would do it that way. If I had the skills to work as a Doctor, I would do things the way I felt best. I'm not greedy and feel people should do their jobs the way they're supposed to be done. Doctors jobs are to save lives first, compensation comes next. They deserve compensation, sure, never said they didn't... but letting someone die to save money or because of another trivial matter is ridiculous. I make it a point not to expect from others what I wouldn't be willing to do myself. Not enough people live this way, and I'm no saint, but you have to walk the talk to expect it from others.

I doubt you would feel the same way when a lot of people you run into treat you like crap for trying to help them, and half of them are potentially people that want to sue you for any little mishap. Insurance for doctors is ridiculously expensive for this reason.

Also, getting a medical degree is ridiculously expensive. I've seen stories where students working from nothing (taking out loans) are unable to repay their student loans after getting their medical degree and a job (usually general pediatricians though).

I was in Engineers without Borders. Organizations like this typically find it much more rewarding to work outside of developed countries. What I see is that in developed countries, people treat medical treatment like it's a right they have, that they're entitled to it. Whereas in developing countries, the people treat them almost as saviors. In addition, people that do do these philanthropic activities can afford to do so, and that money has to come from somewhere.

Additionally, sometimes it's not just up to one person. For example, replacement organs are very rare, and expensive to preserve. Naturally it would only go to those that can afford it. For every person that receives an organ transplant, there's probably at least 5 or 10 more that need it, how do you go about deciding who to save? Until technology progresses to the point we can save everyone 100% (instant organ availability, etc), the ones that have the highest chances of being saved will always be the richest.
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post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

What about the dreams that take place fro one's third eye?

I've seen documentary's and there is scientific evidence that one with a highly developed third eye can dream in a conscious state for up to a month after they are "dead" and can even still appear to be alive.

Anyways, this technology seems like it will be very useful but it should be noted their is no such thing as life or death only a changing of conditions.

Well, it should be noted, in a very scientific way, that without sources, and without a testing methodology that can be repeated, what you name scientifically proven might not be thought as such but anyone but those that already pre-determined to believe the premise.
Still curious to see that "scientific documentary"...if you can remember anything more specific about it.

As for crossing the admittedly thin line between life and death and treating it as "not a big deal"...
Death is very very true, and I find it insulting to even hint otherwise based on egocentric superstitions.
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post #63 of 84
I will remind everyone in this thread that we are not here to discuss the politics of this undertaking. Rather, we are here to discuss the science and implications of this experiment.

Please keep political chit chat away from OCN. Thanks. smile.gif
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post #64 of 84
[quote name="Mad Pistol" url="/t/1477175/newscientist-gunshot-victims-to-be-suspended-between-life-and-death/60#post_22020074"]I will remind everyone in this thread that we are not here to discuss the politics of this undertaking. Rather, we are here to discuss the science and implications of this experiment.

Please keep political chit chat away from OCN. Thanks. smile.gif[/quote]

And there goes the punchline!
post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayleyne View Post

Source
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129623.000-gunshot-victims-to-be-suspended-between-life-and-death.html?cmpid=RSS|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|online-news#.UzQ-fYXluM9


I'm all for advancements in life saving techniques but doesn't this technicly kill them, so they can fix them, And then bring them back to life?

yes they do technically kill them but i would not say that in such words. we can say they just put them in hibernation for a while so there would be enough time to bring them back to life later.
post #66 of 84
Was shot in the chest with a .45. Nearly killed me . Was a trip , hope to see more people survive .
post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkmenbashi View Post

Was shot in the chest with a .45. Nearly killed me . Was a trip , hope to see more people survive .
Sorry to hear that, how did it happen?
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post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkmenbashi View Post

Was shot in the chest with a .45. Nearly killed me . Was a trip , hope to see more people survive .

Hope you're mostly recovered.
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post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1sT3rM4n View Post

Odd. How would they obtain consent for this type of experimental treatment assuming this is being operated out of ER settings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

I think I've heard that the ER doesn't always need consent if they feel your life is in danger. If you have a sucking chest wound do you want them to run around looking for your next of kin to sign a permission form to put a chest tube in and sew up the hole?

Vagrant's right; in the absence of advance directives (DNR, DNI, etc.), the bar for informed consent is set lower in emergent situations. New Scientist did a follow-up article analyzing the IC implications that this might potentially have, and it is a somewhat difficult issue.

For now, this technique is in its very early stages, and its main purpose is to buy doctors a bit more time. Perhaps the most pragmatic solution is to allow/disallow the treatment based on whether or not a person has any advance directives; if they do, disallow the use of this technique. If they don't, then it's fair game, just like resuscitation and any other emergency treatment (if you've seen CPR and defib in person, you'll know that these things aren't nearly as pretty as they are on TV. Flushing a person's blood vessels with cold saline sounds dramatic, but so is breaking ribs and passing a 100-200 joule current through someone's chest.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

But becoming a doctor in the US costs what in these times? $500,000? More, less, doesn't matter. Lots of money.
Money that most of them didn't have before.
Med school tuition is $50-60k a year at the A-list schools now. Average med school graduate gets out of school $170k in hock. This is why I'm in nursing school.
Edited by PiOfPie - 3/29/14 at 9:43am
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post #70 of 84
Kinda surprised this is new. The general idea behind it goes back to ancient greece (iirc).. they already use water cooled "blankets" on people for things similar to this.
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