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How far off is 4K gaming REALLY? Being totally honest and reasonable - Page 3

post #21 of 88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

If we play with 2006 graphics, we can use 4k@60hz now, pretty much

a very big problem as i see it is that devs will continue to target ~60fps at typical mainstream resolution with a midrange card on max graphics (think 760)

so that means GPU power might double.. but if we make a Crysis 4 that looks better, with a GPU that's twice as powerful, FPS won't improve at 1080p or at 4k

there is no reason to have more than 60 fps anyways.
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post #22 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

there is no reason to have more than 60 fps anyways.

There's reason to have 120+, but regardless, increasing graphical quality so that a midrange GPU cant pass 60fps @1080p average won't make it run @4k very well
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post #23 of 88
There really isn't any reason to go over 60fps. Movies are locked to 24 fps, consoles are locked at 30, and 60 is what most people consider perfect. The amount of difference you can see past that, is miniscule, and is pointless for everything except measuring e-peens.
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post #24 of 88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

There's reason to have 120+, but regardless, increasing graphical quality so that a midrange GPU cant pass 60fps @1080p average won't make it run @4k very well

the eye and brain cannot differentiate between 60 and 120. The height of perception is around 30. This means there are 30 electrical and chemical signals sent from the eye to the back of the brain every second. The only reason why 60 looks smoother is because they sort of sync up better.

I am not a know it all, but I do have a degree in psychology and we studied perception and sensation. Just a little fun FYI for everyone.
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post #25 of 88
Gee that's great.

However, capable of 60FPS does not equal stable 60FPS. Unstable 120 is always better than unstable 60. Thus, 120 wins.
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post #26 of 88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSIMP88 View Post

Gee that's great.

However, capable of 60FPS does not equal stable 60FPS. Unstable 120 is always better than unstable 60. Thus, 120 wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

Forget the fact that 4k monitors are out now and that 4K gaming is technically possible, try to make an educated guess as to how far off 4K gaming truly is.

I think it is at least 3 years off. Here is why:

4K = 4 x 1080p

To get 60 FPS steadily without going below that, with the graphics just on medium, you would need 2 780ti in SLI. The VRAM on the card would just barely be enough to get that. Now if you put the graphics on ultra, you MIGHT get 60 FPS with SLI 780ti cards on 4 1080p monitors, but you probably won't. And since the vast majority of people cannot afford 2 ultra high end graphics cards, 4K gaming is still just a hpyothetical at this point. 4K gaming will not take hold until AMD and Nvidia decide that they can put a GPU on their cards powerful enough to run 4K without it costing too much money for the mainstream market. AMD and Nvidia have the technology, but to market that technology is a different story.

So that being said, how long out do you think it will be before a $400 card will be able to run 4K smoothly?

yeah gee I said that. And if you are capable of reaching 120 fps then it's a given that you are hitting steady 60 fps. I don't know of any card or game that goes from 130 fps to 25 fps.

And when I mentioned my background in psychology what I was trying to say is that it is pointless for anyone to try to develop anything for more than 60 fps because of the limits of our perception.

edit: for everyone else, this might help us understand the limits of the best GPU on the market

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgdNX1oQ-OU&list=PLFBCA7683E4064921

now just picture those benchmarks in 4K
Edited by Thready - 3/27/14 at 10:24pm
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post #27 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post


yeah gee I said that. And if you are capable of reaching 120 fps then it's a given that you are hitting steady 60 fps. I don't know of any card or game that goes from 130 fps to 25 fps.
Oblivion did. Probably still does. Ha
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post #28 of 88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSIMP88 View Post

Oblivion did. Probably still does. Ha

the stability of an 8 year old game is MUCH different than games being made now. I am talking about the future, not 8 year old games that were poorly optimized for the love of...
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post #29 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post


the eye and brain cannot differentiate between 60 and 120. The height of perception is around 30. This means there are 30 electrical and chemical signals sent from the eye to the back of the brain every second. The only reason why 60 looks smoother is because they sort of sync up better.

I am not a know it all, but I do have a degree in psychology and we studied perception and sensation. Just a little fun FYI for everyone.

 

You say you have a degree in Psychology? Well you might want to actually brush up on Biology, because a psych degree has utterly nothing to do with how your brain works on a physical level.

 

Everyone has different thresholds in maximum discernible motion. There is utterly no such thing as 30 fps being the max that the eye can see. Why? Because the eyes don't work on the level of FPS. People are EASILY able to discern the difference between 30 fps, 60 fps, and 120 fps. Why? Because the interpolation of images that our eyes send to our brain from your monitor (and I thought you knew this because you had a degree in Psychology).

 

The more data that your brain is presented, the less your brain is having to essentially interpolate what is being shown. 30Hz means that every refresh cycle (generally on a level of 1 second), you are having the image refresh 30 times within that cycle. 60Hz, 60 refreshes within that cycle. 120Hz, 120 refreshes within that cycle.

 

You are literally being fed more information to your brain, so your brain is quite literally guessing less to perceive motion. That leads to better motion clarity (less motion blur), and a more enjoyable experience (my personal opinion, and many others).

 

Since you are in a STEM, I implore you to actually go out and do some research on the topic. Because right now, you are spouting the same stuff that Arxontas said about 2 weeks ago, which I had to get into literally the same argument.

 

And if you really want to get into actual Biology, there are approximately 1.2 million optic nerve fibers capable of carrying electrical pulses to our brain (in other words, information). And to say that a human can only discern 30/60 Hz is ridiculous. There literally is no limit.

 

And if you want to get even further into Biology, there are two ways your brain perceives motion. One is Global motion, in other words your brain tracks a large area. Or Local motion, in which your brain tracks a focused area. Of which viewing "motion" on a monitor falls in the latter.

 

And I beg you, please don't pull an Arxontas. I REALLY don't want to have the same argument again.

post #30 of 88
First of all you cannot compare brain and neurons to other engineered things since they do not have fixed function, they are flexible. The more they're trained the more they're better. If you are always gaming at 60 Hz and you don't care about fluidity then your brain will likely won't notice much difference between 60 Hz and 120 Hz but if you do care about fluidity and smoothness of your games then you'll definitely notice difference.

In a fast paced game where you vigorously move your character look around and your eyes are dancing everywhere rapidly over the screen in search for opponents you'll definitely find 120hz wayy better than 60hz
    
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