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post #11 of 20

Well, it's either that, or have way too much overkill and 80-85% efficiency and possibly reduced quality of power output. This PSU is still very very overkill, but it's 200W less of it.

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It's a computer!
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i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
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Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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post #12 of 20
There's nothing wrong with using the HX650 for this build. You could use a 1.5KW power supply for this build and it would work just fine. This issue of "power quality" and "efficiency" varies by load from PSU to PSU and can't be judged with such a wide brush based on wattage rating. Sometimes a lower power PSU will offer better efficiency under low loads than a higher power unit, but that's not a guarantee. Sometimes a lower power PSU will have cleaner power than a higher power PSU at a low load, but that's not a guarantee either. Some of the finest efficiency and power quality comes from HUGE units at ALL SORTS of loads.

The 450W S12G and HX650 have efficiency characteristics in low-load conditions (~100W) that are so similar (within about 1%) that it doesn't matter. The HX650 has great power quality at low loads, high loads, and everywhere in between, and there is absolutely nothing about running a big PSU at low loads that is "hard" on it. That is a gross misunderstanding.

Furthermore, this is one of those cases where modular may be beneficial, as you could order additional SATA peripheral cables to make things easier to install. As I understand the layout of the HX650, you could technically put up to 4 x SATA power peripheral cables on it, as long as you didn't need any molex elsewhere. Sometimes using all of the connectors on a cable is almost impossible depending on how they line up.



So... Moving on.

Since this sort of build is more motherboard-centric than CPU/GPU (or PSU, lol) centric, I would offer that you may find better value on an FM2+ board. Many of them have 8 SATA III ports and Richland has very *reasonable* idle efficiency characteristics. Not quite as good as haswell however the difference would likely be a wash in this case since you're going to have so many HDs and wifi and stuff going anyway.

The Asus A88X-PLUS is a great quality board with 8x SATA ports. Add a Wifi card and you're set. The ~$80 MSI A88X-G43 is equally well suited. There are even some $60-70 FM2 and FM2+ boards that would work.

I'm guessing since it's just a simple server, a basic CPU w/iGPU is all that is required. The A4-6300 would work nicely for this IMO. Only ~$55.

Richland is well supported from Kernel version 3.10 and up, and the VLIW4 based iGPU is also well supported in linux using either the AMD binary driver or of course, works fine for non-3D accelerated stuff with open source video drivers (I think that's gallium project but I'm a little rusty on that as I always use the binaries from AMD/NV for linux because I like to play games once and awhile, yea I know, bad linux user, BAD)
Edited by mdocod - 3/29/14 at 5:15pm
     
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post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

There's nothing wrong with using the HX650 for this build. You could use a 1.5KW power supply for this build and it would work just fine. This issue of "power quality" and "efficiency" varies by load from PSU to PSU and can't be judged with such a wide brush based on wattage rating. Sometimes a lower power PSU will offer better efficiency under low loads than a higher power unit, but that's not a guarantee. Sometimes a lower power PSU will have cleaner power than a higher power PSU at a low load, but that's not a guarantee either. Some of the finest efficiency and power quality comes from HUGE units at ALL SORTS of loads.

The 450W S12G and HX650 have efficiency characteristics in low-load conditions (~100W) that are so similar (within about 1%) that it doesn't matter. The HX650 has great power quality at low loads, high loads, and everywhere in between, and there is absolutely nothing about running a big PSU at low loads that is "hard" on it. That is a gross misunderstanding.

Furthermore, this is one of those cases where modular may be beneficial, as you could order additional SATA peripheral cables to make things easier to install. As I understand the layout of the HX650, you could technically put up to 4 x SATA power peripheral cables on it, as long as you didn't need any molex elsewhere. Sometimes using all of the connectors on a cable is almost impossible depending on how they line up.



So... Moving on.

Since this sort of build is more motherboard-centric than CPU/GPU (or PSU, lol) centric, I would offer that you may find better value on an FM2+ board. Many of them have 8 SATA III ports and Richland has very *reasonable* idle efficiency characteristics. Not quite as good as haswell however the difference would likely be a wash in this case since you're going to have so many HDs and wifi and stuff going anyway.

The Asus A88X-PLUS is a great quality board with 8x SATA ports. Add a Wifi card and you're set. The ~$80 MSI A88X-G43 is equally well suited. There are even some $60-70 FM2 and FM2+ boards that would work.

I'm guessing since it's just a simple server, a basic CPU w/iGPU is all that is required. The A4-6300 would work nicely for this IMO. Only ~$55.

Richland is well supported from Kernel version 3.10 and up, and the VLIW4 based iGPU is also well supported in linux using either the AMD binary driver or of course, works fine for non-3D accelerated stuff with open source video drivers (I think that's gallium project but I'm a little rusty on that as I always use the binaries from AMD/NV for linux because I like to play games once and awhile, yea I know, bad linux user, BAD)

Thanks for the info. I've been building PCs for quite a long time, and I pretty much knew the HX650 would be great for me, especially if I ever wanted to expand in the future.

And i'm an Intel guy myself. Ever since I made the switch from AMD to Intel about 4 years ago I've just loved Intel. Superb performance and great power efficiency. And with this being a media server, power efficiency was a main concern for me hence the WD green drives and 90 Plus Gold psu. I know I could save money by going to AMD, but I just prefer Intel. And this was never a really tight budget build to begin with so I don't really mind spending the extra $$ for the Intel board and cpu.

But yea, the server will be pretty simple. Its going to run Ubuntu, and I'm going to run Plex on it for all my Movies, TV and Music. That's about all It's going to do. I did want it to be capable of streaming 2-3 HD movies at once since I had roommates who will also be using it, but that should be no problem with this setup IMO. And who knows, I may even install steam and a few linux games on there just for kicks since this will be hooked up to my big screen. That's partially why I wanted an overkill PSU, future expansion. I could add a $250 gpu into this thing no problem.

Thanks for all your input mdocod, +rep.
I'll +rep TwoCables as well, thanks for the input.
post #14 of 20

I still don't like that the HX650 only has 2 x 6+2-pin PCI-E cables when other HX650s (including the 650W SeaSonic G Series, which the HX650 is based on) have 4 instead of 2. If you want two video cards that require 4 x PCI-E connectors in total, then you'll be forced to use those ugly Molex to PCI-E adapters.

It's a computer!
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

I still don't like that the HX650 only has 2 x 6+2-pin PCI-E cables when other HX650s (including the 650W SeaSonic G Series, which the HX650 is based on) have 4 instead of 2. If you want two video cards that require 4 x PCI-E connectors in total, then you'll be forced to use those ugly Molex to PCI-E adapters.
\

I would never run 2 GPUs in this computer anyways.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timlander View Post


\

I would never run 2 GPUs in this computer anyways.

 

Then you'll never need anything 'bigger' than a good quality-made 450W PSU.

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Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
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Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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It's a computer!
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Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
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post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Then you'll never need anything 'bigger' than a good quality-made 450W PSU.

That's your opinion. I've already said this isn't a budget build. If I wanted to get a GTX780 and pop it in here, I could with the HX650, could not with a 450. It's as simple as that. I wanted this build to support future expansion.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timlander View Post


That's your opinion. I've already said this isn't a budget build. If I wanted to get a GTX780 and pop it in here, I could with the HX650, could not with a 450. It's as simple as that. I wanted this build to support future expansion.

 

I'm not stating opinions, I'm stating facts.

 

GTX 780? i3-4330? Yeah:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_780_review,9.html

 

Before I say anything, please take a note of their test system, especially their CPU:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_780_review,12.html

 

They have the i7-3960 at 4.6 GHz. Your CPU is a 54W TDP CPU and theirs is a 130W TDP CPU. With that in mind, let's take a look at the power consumption with a GTX 780 in your build:

 

With one GTX 780 under full load in their system, their PSU pulled 340W from the wall outlet. Their CPU was idling (but still pulling a lot more power than yours does while idling), so let's just add 54W for the sake of argument. Alright, so adding 54W to 340W makes 394W. Ok, so that means that if your PSU is 90% efficient while pulling 394W from the wall outlet, then that means that your computer is pulling 354W from the PSU. The gaming power consumption will be even less, peaking at roughly 325W. Or, actually probably 300W or less due to the extremely low power CPU.

 

300-325W would be a walk in the park for a good quality-made 450W PSU. This is not my opinion.

It's a computer!
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Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timlander View Post

Thanks for the info. I've been building PCs for quite a long time, and I pretty much knew the HX650 would be great for me, especially if I ever wanted to expand in the future.

It's hard to find lower wattage PSUs with the connectivity needs you're after at competitive pricing.

Alternatives that would actually offer some improved efficiency on the low end would be XFX XTR Series P1-550B-BEFX 550W, which might offer about 2% better efficiency than the HX650 at low loads.

Or.. The Rosewill Fortress 450W and 550W, which would offer about 4% better efficiency than the HX650 at low loads. This would require the use of Molex to SATA power adapters.

If maximizing efficiency *for the sake of it* is a goal these similarly priced alternatives may offer a way to do it. As pointed out, even the little 450W fortress would technically be large enough to power regular 80W haswell, GTX780, 6HDs and all system fans/bridges/controllers etc.
Quote:
And i'm an Intel guy myself. Ever since I made the switch from AMD to Intel about 4 years ago I've just loved Intel. Superb performance and great power efficiency. And with this being a media server, power efficiency was a main concern for me hence the WD green drives and 90 Plus Gold psu. I know I could save money by going to AMD, but I just prefer Intel. And this was never a really tight budget build to begin with so I don't really mind spending the extra $$ for the Intel board and cpu.

9/10 builds are better off with Intel. I'm *usually* in a position of trying to make that point here on OCN. Your server system is one of the unusual cases where an AMD build has validity due to the feature rich high value nature of their inexpensive motherboards. Given the lax budget I can appreciate sticking to Intel if that's what you like wink.gif ... If you don't mind me asking, I didn't see which CPU specifically you had in mind (sorry if I missed it). I'm mostly curious. Thinking a T or S model CORE or E3-12X5V3 series might be fun.
Quote:
But yea, the server will be pretty simple. Its going to run Ubuntu, and I'm going to run Plex on it for all my Movies, TV and Music. That's about all It's going to do. I did want it to be capable of streaming 2-3 HD movies at once since I had roommates who will also be using it, but that should be no problem with this setup IMO. And who knows, I may even install steam and a few linux games on there just for kicks since this will be hooked up to my big screen. That's partially why I wanted an overkill PSU, future expansion. I could add a $250 gpu into this thing no problem.

Sounds like fun. You can even install the windows version of Steam with a few minor tweaks to wine settings. Quite a few windows games work on Linux with Wine.

Best of luck with the build and thank you for the consideration.
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
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post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

It's hard to find lower wattage PSUs with the connectivity needs you're after at competitive pricing.

Alternatives that would actually offer some improved efficiency on the low end would be XFX XTR Series P1-550B-BEFX 550W, which might offer about 2% better efficiency than the HX650 at low loads.

Or.. The Rosewill Fortress 450W and 550W, which would offer about 4% better efficiency than the HX650 at low loads. This would require the use of Molex to SATA power adapters.

If maximizing efficiency *for the sake of it* is a goal these similarly priced alternatives may offer a way to do it. As pointed out, even the little 450W fortress would technically be large enough to power regular 80W haswell, GTX780, 6HDs and all system fans/bridges/controllers etc.
9/10 builds are better off with Intel. I'm *usually* in a position of trying to make that point here on OCN. Your server system is one of the unusual cases where an AMD build has validity due to the feature rich high value nature of their inexpensive motherboards. Given the lax budget I can appreciate sticking to Intel if that's what you like wink.gif ... If you don't mind me asking, I didn't see which CPU specifically you had in mind (sorry if I missed it). I'm mostly curious. Thinking a T or S model CORE or E3-12X5V3 series might be fun.
Sounds like fun. You can even install the windows version of Steam with a few minor tweaks to wine settings. Quite a few windows games work on Linux with Wine.

Best of luck with the build and thank you for the consideration.

This chip I got was this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116945
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