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post #11 of 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisaroth View Post

I finished Batman: Arkham City last week and really enjoyed it. And it's not that i'm a batman fanboy, i never watched any batman movie before/never played any batman game before or read any of the comics.

Immediatly bought Arkham Asylum and Origins when i saw them on sale this weekend.

And your 3 points:
1) It's a superhero so his character is quite one dimensional so that is kinda meh.

2) Story was great, i had to force myself to do some of the side missions so that i would not rush too fast through the main missions

3) Setting is also fantastic, just flying through the city without doing anything else was very enjoyable.

I agree on the batman games also. I got a few of them in a humble bundle a while back. I hate super hero movies / shows and never enjoyed comics yet the game was addicting. I never finished any of the games, but the few hours of the first one I played was quite fun. Not to mention the graphics on game that came out in 2009? was better than allot of recent titles.
post #12 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded War View Post


I'm trying to find some games with the following qualities I believe make them great regardless of their setting in time (past/present/future), place, or theme.
1. The main characters must be genuine and likable or feel like a true enemy. They have depth and are there for more than the purpose of driving the story forward.
2. The story must be something that I want to see what happens next, not feel like I'm being told to do everything. I want to do it.
3. Setting is not tossed together without thought. Detail, history, and overall environment. Why am I even there? When is it (past/present/future)? How did the world become the way it is? These are very impotent details allot of games lack, or press too hard into your face. What's wrong with leaving something unsaid or unexplained, only for you to later find out, or maybe never?

These are three things I strongly value in a game too, though when discussing the best games, I'm even more strict as you can see here. Popular games like Far Cry 3, Batman, Tomb Raider, Zelda, The Last of Us, and MGS don't come anywhere near those standards.

People really don't understand your criteria. Hardly anyone has a sharp eye for detail like #3, and it seems nobody has ever read a novel or watched a well-written film, leading to unbelievably low standards for story/writing in the gaming industry.

I've played most of the well known games (excluding sports/MMO/strategy/JRPG) on consoles and PC from the late 90s until now. I consider only these to be great.

- Planescape: Torment
- Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim
- Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
- Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords, despite the bugs, but then again I only played it with TSLRCM along with other mods
- Neverwinter Nights 2, despite the bugs
- S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl
- Mass Effect, all three of them
- Fallout 3
- Fallout: New Vegas
- Dragon Age: Origins, clearly the greatest game in my opinion
- Metro 2033
- Metro: Last Light
- Deus Ex: Human Revolution
- Dishonored
- Thief Gold
- Underhell
- Penumbra series, excluding Requiem
- Amnesia: The Dark Descent
- The Walking Dead

There's more that I haven't played that I expect to be great, but those are the only ones so far.

Some multiplayer games are near-flawless, but I'll never call them great since they don't fit my criteria or yours. Multiplayer games are too repetitive and pointless, even the few gems like Payday 2 and Natural Selection 2.
Edited by boredgunner - 3/29/14 at 3:41pm
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post #13 of 33
Some that I think fit your criteria, in no particular order:

Batman: Arkham City
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Baldur's Gate series - I & II, plus the add ons
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Final Fantasy XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_Plow View Post

Have you checked out Final Fantasy IX? That one seems to fit your requirements (if memory serves correctly and isn't nostalgia amplified).

FF12 is far superior to FF9, IMHO. Far more mature story line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisaroth View Post

I finished Batman: Arkham City last week and really enjoyed it.

Amen. Arkham Asylum was the best superhero game ever made...and then they did Arkham City. Oh boy, did they permanently raise the bar. Too high for themselves, the reviews for Arkham Origins weren't kind, "more of the same" (which I may enjoy, haven't played it yet.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

- Dragon Age: Origins, clearly the greatest game in my opinion

Over Baldur's Gate? I'm surprised...clearly you've played the older games, given that you've done Planescape. I loved DA:Origins, but I consider BG superior...it's just too epic to go from a level 1 n00b to an evil god over the course of the series!
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post #14 of 33

 The last five years or so there have been two games that I enjoyed above all others; FTL and Plants vs. Zombies.

post #15 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post


Over Baldur's Gate? I'm surprised...clearly you've played the older games, given that you've done Planescape. I loved DA:Origins, but I consider BG superior...it's just too epic to go from a level 1 n00b to an evil god over the course of the series!

I've played Planescape but not Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 actually, though I plan to. Isometric 2.5D really harms immersion for me, and I'm pretty sure DA:O is far superior from a storytelling/character development standpoint. The only way it's worse than the classics is its more simplified gameplay, but BG is so clunky and has such a bad UI and that the gameplay will still be less enjoyable for me. DA:O has fluidity that wasn't possible back then.

A properly remade Planescape: Torment in 3D with camera options like DA:O and Neverwinter Nights 2 would be the best game ever in my opinion, but Beamdog is intent on just doing what modders have done already and reselling the games, not to mention inXile has the rights to Planescape: Torment now I'm pretty sure.
Edited by boredgunner - 3/29/14 at 3:40pm
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post #16 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

I've played Planescape but not Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 actually, though I plan to. Isometric 2.5D really harms immersion for me, and I'm pretty sure DA:O is far superior from a storytelling/character development standpoint. The only way it's worse than the classics is its more simplified gameplay, but BG has such a bad UI that the gameplay will still be less enjoyable for me. DA:O has fluidity that wasn't possible back then.

UI is definitely a problem with older games. But since Planescape made your "top" list, maybe it wouldn't be that bad? Same engine. There is a new 3D remake edition of BG, or something like that anyway...maybe that's the way to go for you.

As for story, you might be surprised...it's fantastic how it starts small in BG1, as one should expect from essentially a level 1-8 D&D campaign. But by the end of BG2, it's just immense. And there are more characters than in DA:O, with lots of personality and interplay...it was very impressive. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that DA:O was a "spiritual successor" to BG, right?
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post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post

UI is definitely a problem with older games. But since Planescape made your "top" list, maybe it wouldn't be that bad? Same engine. There is a new 3D remake edition of BG, or something like that anyway...maybe that's the way to go for you.

As for story, you might be surprised...it's fantastic how it starts small in BG1, as one should expect from essentially a level 1-8 D&D campaign. But by the end of BG2, it's just immense. And there are more characters than in DA:O, with lots of personality and interplay...it was very impressive. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that DA:O was a "spiritual successor" to BG, right?

I'm sure BG will make my list of great games yeah. The remake for BG is actually a mod for Neverwinter Nights 2. And yes I'm well aware DA is a spiritual successor lol, both from Bioware and they're the same type of games. But DA:O's characters have so much more depth than other games, and they react to your dialogue much more than the classics I've played. The story branches out much more than any game I've played as well, and it has one of the more interesting antagonists. Bioware's story and character focus really became so much stronger starting in 2007 with Mass Effect.
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post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post

Final Fantasy XII
FF12 is far superior to FF9, IMHO. Far more mature story line.

And you wouldn't be alone in thinking that. Perhaps I've just been around more people who love XII, but all the hype may have made me a bit more critical of the game. My biggest issue with XII was that I felt absolutely no connection with the main character (Van?). I understood that large scale events were happening and that they would affect many lives, but it seemed far too coincidental that Van and Panelo just suddenly got mixed up in it. Balthier and Fran I was more ok with being involved perhaps because they seemed more worldly or maybe they were more well developed (sorry, I legitimately don't remember it's been three or four years since I played it). I kept waiting for Van to be tied into the main story somehow other than "Well, I'll stick through this to the end," but I was disappointed. I also remember the plot being really straight forward and fairly predictable. Not that FF IX isn't, and maybe I'm forgetting some twists, but that sticks out in my mind.

Based on the criteria given, it doesn't matter which one I thought was better, I think IX fits better with what the OP is asking for. Mature in this case probably isn't an automatic selling point considering Kingdom Hearts is on his list. Not that those are bad games (I think they're great), but they hardly appear gritty and "adult."
Edited by MR_Plow - 3/30/14 at 6:05pm
post #19 of 33
Game that fit your criteria I'd recommend:

Final Fantasy VII - Truely one of the most revolutionary games ever made
Legend of Dragoon
ICO
Shadow of Colossus
Mass Effect series
Lunar 2
Lost Odyssey
Dark Souls
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
L.A. Noire
Far Cry 3
Dragon Age
Baldur's Gate
Fallout 3
Bioshock series sans 2
Batman Arkham series
Beyond Good & Evil
Final Fantasy Tactics
Breath of Fire
Bravely Default
Half Life series
Remember Me
Binary Domain (pity there won't be a sequal)
Tomb Raider
Devil May Cry series, even DmC
Zelda: Ocarina of TIme
Zelda: A Link to the Past
Zelda: A Link between Worlds
Portal 1/2
Zone of Enders 1/2
Star Ocean 2
Chrono Trigger


Hmm, those are the only ones I can think of so far, but I'm sure I'll update it at some point tongue.gif
Edited by End3R - 3/29/14 at 9:17pm
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post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_Plow View Post

Mature in this case probably isn't an automatic selling point considering Kingdom Hearts is on his list.

Well you got me there...

I'll put on my flame suit now, but Kingdom Hearts is IMHO about the stupidest game concept ever. I played maybe 10 hours of KH1, and it was just asinine. Sorry folks, the FF universe and Disney universe just do NOT go together. You can't just smash two completely different media concepts into one because they are both "popular" and expect a coherent result. The Square characters are out of place in the Disney universe, and the Disney characters are wildly uncharacteristic of themselves. It's just terrible.

If that makes sense, my not mix The Elder Scrolls with the Warner Brothers universe? Why not have Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck wandering around Skyrim or whatever? Because it would be fricking stupid, that's why!!! But hey, maybe we should have been doing this in the 80s, some dying RPG franchises might have survived...Ultima + Care Bears? Wizardry + My Pretty Pony? The Bard's Tale + Hello Kitty? tongue.gif

Obviously Kingdom Hearts has its devoted fans...more power to you. Different strokes. But man, I've played just about every type of game there is, and I just don't get this one.
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