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I want this heatsink - Page 3

post #21 of 60
Thread Starter 
There's really nowhere near enough evidence to prove the actual performance of that particular setup.

You're right that I assumed that the radiator is liquid filled. A significant amount of compensation gas would change my sums a bit. If the radiator were gas filled as you say then the only liquid returning from the radiator would be the tiny amount produced by the little gas bubbles moving into it. By the look of that video the amount of condensate must be literally just slow dripping back into the loop. We do however see the bubbles moving a little bit faster than they otherwise would from gravity alone (hard to be sure without knowing the viscosity of the liquid) indicating to me that liquid is actually flowing all the way through the radiator. Maybe the radiator is only half full of liquid... we just don't know.

There is no new science behind that setup. It is a very simple contraption. The science behind the way it behaves is easy to explain. The reasons it is less efficient than both water cooling and heatpipes is apparently harder to comprehend. Thermodynamics is not that hard. If an engine for displacing heat uses some of it's power to move a liquid instead, it is pretty clearly describing efficiency losses. This design will never outperform existing water or heatpipe CPU coolers. It may very well have applications in situations where both powered pumps and heatpipes aren't viable and it certainly makes for an entertaining party trick / science fair demo.

There's nothing to suggest that the Captherm device has any more liquid by volume than any other heatpipe product.

I'm right with you on BTX
Edited by matman - 4/2/14 at 3:35am
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post #22 of 60
well, the unit shown is only a prototype. as to how well it works in a stressed environment is yet to be seen. it may be that in a highly stressed environment, the rushing gas from the boiling liquid would impede or even prevent the liquid return process and cause an occasional heat spike at times which may be harmful to the chip. however until this product becomes a reality, there is no real way to test it. I like the concept of the cooler and would like to see it make it to market. I could be proven entirely wrong if the product simply doesn't work under all conditions, but at least it's a new/different direction of thinking that may eventually bring more breakthroughs in cooling. the unit show may be a party trick today,(there is no way to test it w/o getting our hands on it) but with further development, it may become something that works even better then existing thermal solutions.

looking a few years ahead, i see diamond chips becoming a reality and the thermal challenge will once again be at the forefront of discussion when they start pushing diamond chips towards the 10ghz mark. silicon is at the end of its usefulness once 10nm tech is achieved. diamond is the most promising material going beyond the 10nm mark and the amount of heat that needs to be cooled will once again be pushed further. this is why having more options and looking at different science behind cooling should be encouraged. the silverstone product is simply the Mk1 of the product. it may be that the Mk5 or Mk8 version of the product would perform better then anything on the market today and eventually become the industry standard much like how heatpipes have become the standard rather then a large chunk of aluminum or copper as the standard heatsink.
post #23 of 60
Air can only cool so much. Compaired to the best air heatsink on the market probably only get 1-2c difference.
And thats assuming your using the same quality materials as the best heatsink.
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post #24 of 60
Multiphase cooling is still 2000x more efficient than air cooling and 500x more efficient than liquid cooling.
  • True, air does have a finite cooling ability.
  • But there are many ways to increase how well it does this.
  • How much heat and how fast that heat is transmitted away from the chip
  • How much heat and how fast that heat is than transmitted into the radiator
  • How much heat and how fast that heat is released into the air.

Twenty years ago all we had were chunks of copper and aluminum cut with fins and a fan to move air through them.

Than water cooling came along.

Than heat pipes using water.

Now multiphase cooling using high tech solutions.

Multiphase cooling improves on existing technologies by:
  • Increasing Thermal Performance
  • Improving Ergonomics – Smaller, lighter and quieter
  • Vastly improved Reliability
  • Improved Energy Efficiency of the Cooling System and Electronics Component

The thermal energy/dissipation figure in the multiphase technology can no longer be defined through the specific heat, as all energy is absorbed when the refrigerant changes its state from liquid to vapor (uptaking heat inside the evaporator), or absorbing heat by phase change from vapor to liquid (rejecting heat inside the condenser). It does not change the temperature of the substance.

Heat pipes us water.
The heat of vaporization for 1 Kilogram of Water equals 2,257 Kilojoules per Kilogram. That is simply the energy required to completely vaporize (boil) the 1 Kilogram or Liter of Water (H2O).

Effectively, even with the temperature rise of 1 degree that air and liquid cooling had to their advantage – Multiphase cooling is still 2000x more efficient than air cooling and 500x more efficient than liquid cooling.
post #25 of 60
Deleted...might be on to something!
Edited by Mugato - 4/2/14 at 2:53pm
post #26 of 60
Thread Starter 
heh doyll. You seem to be a little excited about what Captherm is doing. I browsed through their materials which superlatively compare their product to air and water cooling. I didn't see any mention of heatpipe coolers and I think I know why. Heatpipes as we know them in current cpu coolers are multi phase (liquid/gas). I would be very surprised Captherm's Multiphase (trademarked?) isn't just variation on a heatpipe. I'm not at all suggesting that they haven't done anything novel or clever and I hope they are able to apply different construction and materials to improve on the performance over existing multi phase devices - heatpipes.

As for the argument of air vs water vs multi phase: Unless a cooler is pumping heat into something other than air it can still be considered an air cooler. Our terms describing coolers are really more about how heat is moved from the source to the radiator be it pure copper plate, recirculated liquid or phase change heat pipe.

If you measure in terms of performance per radiator surface area current heatpipe coolers are the most efficient, so much so that doubling the efficiency of the heatpipe would do next to nothing for your CPU temps unless you also increase the capacity of the attached radiator.

Just to be clear: Water is NOT better than air. Water loops with a 140mm radiator are less efficient than heatpipe coolers with 140mm radiators. If we can make a heatpipe cooler with a 280mm radiator it will be more efficient than a 280mm water loop. Flexibulity of radiator size and placement is what makes water the premium choice today and that probably won't change soon. The very best (above ambient) cooler that *could* be made today would use phase change heat transport, not a water loop.

Back to the Captherm product. It could be 20x better at moving heat from CPU to radiator and still be worse than an NH-U14S if the radiator itself isn't more efficient too. As I've said before, there's no substitute for moving more air over the radiator.
Edited by matman - 4/2/14 at 9:12pm
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post #27 of 60
As for the OP: Put it out the back with the mobo oriented like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163180
With the fins on top, you could dissipate 300 watts passive or >600 watts active with 1000 RPM fans I think (different FPI for passive and active, you'd have to choose which one.)
 
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post #28 of 60
Diminishing rate of returns.


Besides, this was already done (yes, a heatsink case!)

Once again...
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post #29 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Diminishing rate of returns.


Besides, this was already done (yes, a heatsink case!)

That is just ridiculous.
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post #30 of 60
Thread Starter 
@H-man: Sideways orientation will impact performance. As the pipes get longer wicks lose performance and gravity plays a greater role. The radiator has to stay above the CPU and the pipes have to stay close to vertical.

@DuckieHo: Diminishing returns? This is almost universally true in thermodynamic systems. Everything is on a performance curve(s). Ask a PC enthusiast if it's ever OK to spend 50% more to receive 25% more performance....

lol heatsink case. Far less practical than even the OP.

Already done? I disagree.
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