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[Think Computers] NVIDIA Maxwell 20nm GPU Lineup Delayed Until 2015 - Page 16

post #151 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post



You guys know that your "scaling" argument relies on Maxwell scaling up worse than Kepler right? There's absolutely zero proof to back up that claim...

Especially since the whole point of Maxwell, and I mean the whole, 100%, first design principle point of Maxwell is much more effective scaling.
post #152 of 193
let me guess, the Maxwell on 28nm went better than expected, and 20nm TSMC yields are worst than expected.

Nvidia do not have immediate designs for higher end maxwell 28nm, because it is design to use 20nm from the very beginning.

I just hope a pair maxwell 256bit GM104(or single PCIE 6pin GPU GTX850-860) at $200, can be as quick as a pair of 1GHz 780Ti biggrin.gif
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post #153 of 193
Come on Alatar et all, you try to micromanage the technical arguments about it but it's really a big picture that speaks louder. And it's not a business picture like that other guy said. It's a technological big picture.

AMD and NVIDIA seem to compete very closely for a long time with similar performance per die size. Why would one of them fail this time? And if one of them did fail, why would NVIDIA not destroy their 290s with cheap small Maxwells on 28nm now? You could claim they need time but come on, 28nm is practically ancient now, making a small Maxwell would be piece of cake now, after all they already made a minature one and Kepler is already gigantic and stable. And I would return to the argument, are AMD fools to not do the same? After all, even if they failed to do it in time, they would swiftly reverse engineer it on paper and make an announcement. But look at that they do nothing. But oh wait, neither NVIDIA or AMD are releasing "30% faster" GPUs anytime soon on 28nm big scale.

The other alternative is a conspiracy. NVIDIA and AMD being a cartel. It sounds ludicrous but it's a better explanation than a technological one if you really think they can make a big 28nm GPU that is 30% faster. They already seem to be a duopoly on GPUs probably via patents, though I doubt they would go that far with this topic.
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post #154 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Come on Alatar et all, you try to micromanage the technical arguments about it but it's really a big picture that speaks louder. And it's not a business picture like that other guy said. It's a technological big picture.

AMD and NVIDIA seem to compete very closely for a long time with similar performance per die size. Why would one of them fail this time? And if one of them did fail, why would NVIDIA not destroy their 290s with cheap small Maxwells on 28nm now? You could claim they need time but come on, 28nm is practically ancient now, making a small Maxwell would be piece of cake now, after all they already made a minature one and Kepler is already gigantic and stable. And I would return to the argument, are AMD fools to not do the same? After all, even if they failed to do it in time, they would swiftly reverse engineer it on paper and make an announcement. But look at that they do nothing. But oh wait, neither NVIDIA or AMD are releasing "30% faster" GPUs anytime soon on 28nm big scale.

The other alternative is a conspiracy. NVIDIA and AMD being a cartel. It sounds ludicrous but it's a better explanation than a technological one if you really think they can make a big 28nm GPU that is 30% faster. They already seem to be a duopoly on GPUs probably via patents, though I doubt they would go that far with this topic.
Normally I would argue the Maxwell desing isn't ready for 28nm as it was made for 20nm but it seems Nvidia already did infact port it to the old 28nm node something they did in the past with the 8XXX -> 9XXX transitions and later again with 260 -> 260 core.

Since Nvidia has a SMX/SMM buildup I think they can scale it up in not too much time. The only thing that comes to mind is that they want to milk kepler for as long as they can and may have problems scaling up the more cache structure that Maxwell brings.

Either new gen arch on old but updated node or new arch on a new node at GloFo that is how I see the future. thumb.gif
post #155 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Come on Alatar et all, you try to micromanage the technical arguments about it but it's really a big picture that speaks louder. And it's not a business picture like that other guy said. It's a technological big picture.

AMD and NVIDIA seem to compete very closely for a long time with similar performance per die size. Why would one of them fail this time? And if one of them did fail, why would NVIDIA not destroy their 290s with cheap small Maxwells on 28nm now? You could claim they need time but come on, 28nm is practically ancient now, making a small Maxwell would be piece of cake now, after all they already made a minature one and Kepler is already gigantic and stable. And I would return to the argument, are AMD fools to not do the same? After all, even if they failed to do it in time, they would swiftly reverse engineer it on paper and make an announcement. But look at that they do nothing. But oh wait, neither NVIDIA or AMD are releasing "30% faster" GPUs anytime soon on 28nm big scale.

The other alternative is a conspiracy. NVIDIA and AMD being a cartel. It sounds ludicrous but it's a better explanation than a technological one if you really think they can make a big 28nm GPU that is 30% faster. They already seem to be a duopoly on GPUs probably via patents, though I doubt they would go that far with this topic.

AMD and Nvidia seem like the standard and luxury brands of the same company

For me, AMD has a certain lack of initiative that just seems suspect

Could also be piss poor R&D and marketing....who knows
post #156 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoHnYBLaZe View Post

AMD and Nvidia seem like the standard and luxury brands of the same company

For me, AMD has a certain lack of initiative that just seems suspect

Could also be piss poor R&D and marketing....who knows
AMD introduced more neat ideas last year than Nvidia.
We have Mantle, Freesync and high res readyness.

At Nv we had
Shadowplay, a neat cooler design and uhm boost2.0?

The difference is that Nvidia pushed 3 of the ideas to market while AMD only pushed Mantle and high res readyness.
Nvidia wins on getting things to market AMD wins on thinking outside the box.
post #157 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

AMD introduced more neat ideas last year than Nvidia.
We have Mantle, Freesync and high res readyness.

At Nv we had
Shadowplay, a neat cooler design and uhm boost2.0?

The difference is that Nvidia pushed 3 of the ideas to market while AMD only pushed Mantle and high res readyness.
Nvidia wins on getting things to market AMD wins on thinking outside the box.

What about G-sync ?
post #158 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

AMD introduced more neat ideas last year than Nvidia.
We have Mantle, Freesync and high res readyness.

At Nv we had
Shadowplay, a neat cooler design and uhm boost2.0?

The difference is that Nvidia pushed 3 of the ideas to market while AMD only pushed Mantle and high res readyness.
Nvidia wins on getting things to market AMD wins on thinking outside the box.
So AMD gets credited for thinking of Freesync last year but Nvidia doesn't get credit for the original thought...Gsync? lachen.gif And what exactly is high res readyness
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post #159 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcamaross View Post

So AMD gets credited for thinking of Freesync last year but Nvidia doesn't get credit for the original thought...Gsync? lachen.gif And what exactly is high res readyness

Apparently, AMD gets credited for thinking of FreeSync (but expecting display manufacturers to do all the work on it), but Nvidia doesn't get credit for actually bringing G-Sync to consumers' hands before FreeSync ever was mentioned. So fair.
post #160 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

AMD introduced more neat ideas last year than Nvidia.
We have Mantle, Freesync and high res readyness.

At Nv we had
Shadowplay, a neat cooler design and uhm boost2.0?

The difference is that Nvidia pushed 3 of the ideas to market while AMD only pushed Mantle and high res readyness.
Nvidia wins on getting things to market AMD wins on thinking outside the box.

Oooooooh-no you don't....

I'm not turning this into green vs red

Bottom line in my personal opinion and taste....

Why did AMD respond to the titan cooler with that cheap thing....big no-no....again IMO....where I'm concerned

Why did they take so long to fix crossfire? Improve drivers? I'll reiterate and repeat, that these are things I personally take issue with

Even after all that I will say, had it not been for mining, I would own aftermarket duel 290x, because none of these aforementioned things are more offensive than Nvidia's pricing

Speaking of which have any of you seen ebay prices?!? Should have waited and waterblocked some 290x's
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