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[Think Computers] NVIDIA Maxwell 20nm GPU Lineup Delayed Until 2015 - Page 19

post #181 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Not for desktop, they don't. That's the whole point. That development work still has to happen in order to make FreeSync happen, and AMD has quite clearly said that that burden will be on the display manufacturers, not them. Why people continue to insist that AMD be given credit for it is beyond me. When ASUS or Benq come out with FreeSync displays, they will be the ones who will deserve the credit, not AMD.

The FreeSync announcement was a passive snipe at Nvidia's G-Sync rollout, and nothing more. Passive because AMD is not actually doing any of the work.

And before anyone starts with claiming I'm just an Nvidia fanboy, I'll state for full disclosure that I have an AMD card. I would LOVE it if FreeSync lived up to the hype the AMD forum defense squad is generating. And note that the hype is only on the forums side - nothing AMD has actually said meshes with what its defenders here and elsewhere are saying about FreeSync.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

OoooOooOh, that firmware update for dp1.2 monitors that the monitor manufacturers are going to have to provide will be sooOoOoO difficult for them. Thing is, AMD got the vesa standard approved, that's work. AMD is going to have to write the driver for their graphics cards to perform free-sync, that's work. So pretty much, even if it's less work than what NVidia put in G-Sync, all of the R&D has been done by AMD for free-sync, you guessed it, work, by employees, that they have to pay.

Thing is, the bigger company with more market share is going to monetize things at every opportunity. It's up to 2nd place to undermine them. Guess who comes out on top? The consumer. You talk like you are the CEO of NVidia and that free-sync is a "personal" attack. Honestly dude....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

A firmware update is not sufficient to make FreeSync work on desktops. It will require the display manufacturers to develop new hardware, and AMD has stated that it hopes they do it on their own rather than actually helping them. Do some research before you open up the snide "OoooOooOh" remarks.

If all the contribution you have is to repeat the same false, debunked misinformation that came solely from internet forum users who believe AMD can do no wrong while completely ignoring what AMD itself has said on the matter, then this is not going to be a productive conversation.
Mand12 please we have been over this before most high end panels like the LM270 have a eDP variant this tech is already in them because it is nothing new it was just absent in the desktop standard.
Now I would like to add to that lightboost is not much different from this but it works the other way around it sends the refresh signal to the backlight.
post #182 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMI86 View Post

You could very well be right. I was stating I like the path AMD is on with it. I didn't mean to make it sound like it is going to drop tomorrow lol. I was just trying to point out to all the nay sayers that if people actually start working with this it could be sooner than they might like to admit. Why would NV implementing a g-sync ASIC kill profit margins for competition using FPGA ? How these technologies are developed is somewhat new to me so if you have more information you could share I would love to hear.
ASICs take millions of dollars up front and a lot of time to develop, but are relatively inexpensive per chip in high volumes. FPGA can be programmed with whatever logic you want with very little initial development cost or time, but they are much more expensive per chip. Generally FPGAs are used for prototyping and low volume niche stuff. Nvidia used them in the initial g-sync release because early adopters are willing to pay a premium, and there's nobody else on the market to drive prices down. Now, Nvidia has a head start on ASIC development, for all we know an ASIC implementation of g-sync could have been in development for a year before G-sync was even announced. This means a FPGA version of Freesync could have a BOM cost $100 or more higher than an ASIC version of g-sync. Which would let Nvidia retail their monitors at whatever it costs just to manufacture the competing product, while still maintaining a healthy profit margin.

The FPGA used in the initial g-sync modules costs $810 in low volume, and Nvidia was charging $200 for the g-sync mod kit. Either they got a good deal from Altera, or they decided to sell the initial kits at a loss in order to build hype. In the early press materials, they're planning on eventually getting the price of a g-sync monitor to within $100 of a non-g-sync monitor, which likely isn't enough to cover the cost of an FPGA.
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post #183 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

ASICs take millions of dollars up front and a lot of time to develop, but are relatively inexpensive per chip in high volumes. FPGA can be programmed with whatever logic you want with very little initial development cost or time, but they are much more expensive per chip. Generally FPGAs are used for prototyping and low volume niche stuff. Nvidia used them in the initial g-sync release because early adopters are willing to pay a premium, and there's nobody else on the market to drive prices down. Now, Nvidia has a head start on ASIC development, for all we know an ASIC implementation of g-sync could have been in development for a year before G-sync was even announced. This means a FPGA version of Freesync could have a BOM cost $100 or more higher than an ASIC version of g-sync. Which would let Nvidia retail their monitors at whatever it costs just to manufacture the competing product, while still maintaining a healthy profit margin.

The FPGA used in the initial g-sync modules costs $810 in low volume, and Nvidia was charging $200 for the g-sync mod kit. Either they got a good deal from Altera, or they decided to sell the initial kits at a loss in order to build hype. In the early press materials, they're planning on eventually getting the price of a g-sync monitor to within $100 of a non-g-sync monitor, which likely isn't enough to cover the cost of an FPGA.
too bad for Nvidia that the eDP standard already has it and the monitor's tcon(ASIC) therefore only needs to have a capable input. Imma test the new Nv driver now I hope there are some great improvements in Civ5 in turn times. thumb.gif
post #184 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

too bad for Nvidia that the eDP standard already has it and the monitor's tcon(ASIC) therefore only needs to have a capable input. Imma test the new Nv driver now I hope there are some great improvements in Civ5 in turn times. thumb.gif
eDP is in zero desktop monitors, and AMD hasn't actually demonstrated eDP adapting to changing framerates on a frame by frame basis, they just showed it running at a static 50hz at CES. If there have been updates, I'm all ears.
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post #185 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

eDP is in zero desktop monitors, and AMD hasn't actually demonstrated eDP adapting to changing framerates on a frame by frame basis, they just showed it running at a static 50hz at CES. If there have been updates, I'm all ears.

Ya and that got made by ASIC soon after DP came out cuss laptop users needed it for power saving features. So why cant they do the same stuff now and put it on the motherboards or build right into a DP cable.
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post #186 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

ASICs take millions of dollars up front and a lot of time to develop, but are relatively inexpensive per chip in high volumes. FPGA can be programmed with whatever logic you want with very little initial development cost or time, but they are much more expensive per chip. Generally FPGAs are used for prototyping and low volume niche stuff. Nvidia used them in the initial g-sync release because early adopters are willing to pay a premium, and there's nobody else on the market to drive prices down. Now, Nvidia has a head start on ASIC development, for all we know an ASIC implementation of g-sync could have been in development for a year before G-sync was even announced. This means a FPGA version of Freesync could have a BOM cost $100 or more higher than an ASIC version of g-sync. Which would let Nvidia retail their monitors at whatever it costs just to manufacture the competing product, while still maintaining a healthy profit margin.

The FPGA used in the initial g-sync modules costs $810 in low volume, and Nvidia was charging $200 for the g-sync mod kit. Either they got a good deal from Altera, or they decided to sell the initial kits at a loss in order to build hype. In the early press materials, they're planning on eventually getting the price of a g-sync monitor to within $100 of a non-g-sync monitor, which likely isn't enough to cover the cost of an FPGA.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the info.
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post #187 of 193
oh how i wish i bought a gtx 690 back in march 2012
post #188 of 193
good thing you didnt, theyre going for around $600 each now lol.
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post #189 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

... now who should I believe.... Someone who only quotes AMD marketing headlines, or someone who put some technical thought into it..........rolleyes.gif

AMD's head of visual computing, or some guy on the internet. Hmm....
post #190 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

You're right I forgot stating the obvious because I listed Freesync for AMD which was kinda a copy with no resources.
Sorry really I have tests I'm not that focused on the forum but yeah I should've listed it for Nvidia.

high res readyness is extra rops and a wider memory bus and better multi card scaling wink.gif
Not turning it into green versus red that guy stated his openion so I chose to mention who was innovator and who was the one that actually brings things to market.
The list can go on and on but AMD is clearly the innovator and Nvidia the market pusher. rolleyes.gif

And I created a bash party people please focus on the node problem at hand.
As I called before I think a switch to GloFo will occur based on AMD's latest statement.
Ah, so it's something you made up as a point for AMD, got ya. Last time I checked, card specs weren't neat ideas introduced by AMD in the last year, it just has higher more rops/wider bus, unless you think everytime a company increases its rops or memory bus width it's a neat idea
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