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[Anandtech] Apple's Cyclone Microarchitecture Detailed - Page 3

post #21 of 42
It is very hard to optimize apps to run on multiple threads.
Multi-core CPUs are great for highly repetitive tasks, but in the long run you cannot have all of your compute being done this way.
Even if certain "core" operations are multithreaded, there are lots and lots of programs that cannot really be. It's not just for the sake of simplicity at this point.

Single thread performance is important, and the "easy" way to increase that is by increasing clocks within the same generation of architecture, and ofc IPC with consecutive generations.

Thus, we are still bound to single thread performance in both PCs and smartphones/tablets, and it will be the case for quite some time more, it seems.

Also, clocks are dynamically adjusted depending on load/demand: it is not like all CPUs are stuck to "all-or-nothing".
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post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

It is very hard to optimize apps to run on multiple threads.
Multi-core CPUs are great for highly repetitive tasks, but in the long run you cannot have all of your compute being done this way.
Even if certain "core" operations are multithreaded, there are lots and lots of programs that cannot really be. It's not just for the sake of simplicity at this point.

Single thread performance is important, and the "easy" way to increase that is by increasing clocks within the same generation of architecture, and ofc IPC with consecutive generations.

Thus, we are still bound to single thread performance in both PCs and smartphones/tablets, and it will be the case for quite some time more, it seems.

Also, clocks are dynamically adjusted depending on load/demand: it is not like all CPUs are stuck to "all-or-nothing".

Well, phones have UI that real-time responses. This means relatively heavy asynchronous execution and mutli-threading does help with that.

But I do agree that smartphone tasks are mostly lightly threaded. A quadcore is more than enough for the vast majority of smartphone workloads. IPC and frequency are the ways to improve real-world performance.
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post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadboy90 View Post

I'm not sure why Apple wants to keep such a tight lid on their processors and what they are capable of. You would think they would want to trumpet this kind of stuff from the rooftops but they rarely even talk about clock speed.

So they can continue to keep on making baseless and unfounded claims about their hardware being comparable. rolleyes.gif
post #24 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Moving to quadcore is alot better.

4 cores running at half is more efficient than 2 cores maxed. 1 ghz quad > 1.5ghz dual core any day of the weak. Well if IOS can use 4 cores at once that is.

Apple didn't improve battery life without increasing the battery size.

And oh yes I love them 2.5ghz quad cores lol.
Apple wouldn't be looking at a quad-core at half speed though, it'd be at 1.4GHz or so.

Are they able to do that without consuming too much power and generating too much heat? I don't know. It's mostly games that would benefit from the CPU.

Actually battery life is slightly better on the 5S than it is on the 4S. Slightly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

This is the limit on CPUs.... (power) = (capacitance) * (frequency) * (voltage)^2

Assuming the work done per watt is held the same and the workload is parallel-able...

You can double the performance by increasing frequency and holding cores the same. This in turn will generally require an increase in voltage as well, so: (capacitance) * (frequency*2) * (voltage*(+scaling))^2
You can double the performance by doubling cores and holding frequency the same. This in turn will generally require increase silicon but power increase is nearly linear, so: 2*((capacitance) * (frequency) * (voltage)^2)
You can double the performance by quadrupling the cores and lowering frequency. This in turn will generally require increase silicon more but power increase is nearly linear, so: 4*((capacitance) * (frequency/2) * (voltage*(-scaling))^2)

Therefore, moving to quad-cores can help... but the software and OS have to catch up.
Ah interesting statistics, thanks. I'm not certain though that the iPhone can handle a 1.4GHz quad-core without overheating or throttling at all. I'd prefer they stick with an improved dual-core as much as possible for single threaded performance.
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post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadboy90 View Post

Battery life is already pretty bad. My girlfriend has the 5s and she needs to charge it halfway through the day so it doesn't die on her before she gets home.

iPhone 5s' battery life is very good for general usage (internet browsing over wifi/LTE and games, etc) compared to its competition. iPhones only perform badly with respect to battery life in cellular talk time.
So your girlfriend's iPhone is defective, or she is using very power intensive apps and should change her phone's configuration.

An iPhone 5s should be able to easily do a day on one charge.
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post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Ah interesting statistics, thanks. I'm not certain though that the iPhone can handle a 1.4GHz quad-core without overheating or throttling at all. I'd prefer they stick with an improved dual-core as much as possible for single threaded performance.

It's not statistics.... it's physics.

Increasing IPC is not easy once you clear all the low hanging fruit. Tightly integrated software that multi-threads better where it can is really part of the answer.
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post #27 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

It's not statistics.... it's physics.
Maybe so but I was just trying to say it was interesting to see it written out like that.
Quote:
Increasing IPC is not easy once you clear all the low hanging fruit. Tightly integrated software that multi-threads better where it can is really part of the answer.
I wasn't suggesting it is. But that's where I think Apple should put all their effort.

I dislike quad-cores in smartphones and tablets, for several reasons. But especially because they can't run at full load without throttling -- I mean, even the dual-core 5S throttles somewhat.

I'd rather that Apple sticks with a dual-core and improves IPC, and ups the clock speed when a die shrink comes along.
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post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

I'd like to know how they get the speed that they do...surely it has to be OS/software optimizations, right?

I mean, how else could a dual-core ~1.6GHz keep up with a quad-core 2.2GHz processor if not for very optimized software? If it IS hardware power then how is Qualcomm/Samsung/everyone other than Apple so So SO far behind in speed?

So yeah...how? What gives?


Well, you could go to a clothing store, buy a pair of pants, and have them hemmed, or you could go to a tailor who will make your pants with your exact measurements. The tailor will (or at least should) always give a much better fit.

In this case, iOS and the hardware it is attached to are very tightly crafted to work together as best as possible. It's like building your own kernel to the exact specs of your computer.
    
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post #29 of 42
is it me or has Anand become an Apple fan boy lately? He seems to write more articles/reviews about Apple/iPhone than about any other company/product.
post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt View Post

is it me or has Anand become an Apple fan boy lately? He seems to write more articles/reviews about Apple/iPhone than about any other company/product.

They have been for years.

I never read their phone reviews anymore.
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