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[RealWorldTech]AMD’s Jaguar Microarchitecture - Page 5

post #41 of 54
AMD doesn't have any appreciable business because their SOCs suck. Get over it. The only use they have is that they're cheap. And that really isn't enough in the current market because the market is willing to pay more for quality. That's why Apple sells so many ipads despite the price. This is why samsung sells so many phones despite being rather expensive. Quality. Consumers don't want a drive to the bottom quality with poor battery life, which is all AMD can provide on the mobile space.

This cuckoo conspiracy theory stuff is good for a laugh. I'll toss you a hint. The prior suit was from a decade ago when AMD had a performance lead over intel with their excellent then Athlon chips. AMD was a force to be reckoned with then, they had great products. Sadly, that AMD no longer exists. Instead, we have the current AMD who can only hash out inferior performance per watt year after year while their fan base cries with conspiracy theories. It's not that. It's an inferior product. Get over it. Bay Trail has superior CPU performance with insanely good PPW, while the core ultra low voltage SKUs have no answer from AMD. They're just better products. End of.

But if some fans want to provide laughing material with the conspiracy theory stuff, by all means. Do that.

At least AMD GPUs are competetive. I view AMD as a discrete GPU company and nothing else. On this front they're doing pretty good - the 290 cards are very competetive with what NV has. On the other hand, nothing AMD has is competetive with what intel has in terms of maximum performance or performance per watt. That's why their stuff doesn't get design wins in the mobile market.
Edited by xoleras - 4/2/14 at 8:26am
post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

AMD doesn't have any appreciable business because their SOCs suck. Get over it. The only use they have is that they're cheap. And that really isn't enough in the current market because the market is willing to pay more for quality. That's why Apple sells so many ipads despite the price. This is why samsung sells so many phones despite being rather expensive. Quality. Consumers don't want a drive to the bottom quality with poor battery life, which is all AMD can provide on the mobile space.

This cuckoo conspiracy theory stuff is good for a laugh. I'll toss you a hint. The prior suit was from a decade ago when AMD had a performance lead over intel with their excellent then Athlon chips. AMD was a force to be reckoned with then, they had great products. Sadly, that AMD no longer exists. Instead, we have the current AMD who can only hash out inferior performance per watt year after year while their fan base cries with conspiracy theories. It's not that. It's an inferior product. Get over it. Bay Trail has superior CPU performance with insanely good PPW, while the core ultra low voltage SKUs have no answer from AMD. They're just better products. End of.

But if some fans want to provide laughing material with the conspiracy theory stuff, by all means. Do that.

At least AMD GPUs are competetive. I view AMD as a discrete GPU company and nothing else. On this front they're doing pretty good - the 290 cards are very competetive with what NV has. On the other hand, nothing AMD has is competetive with what intel has in terms of maximum performance or performance per watt. That's why their stuff doesn't get design wins in the mobile market.


Bay trail only wins contracts because intel pays firms to use it, it is absolutely non-competitive otherwise. There is proof all over the internet, intel themselves admitted to it. There is no conspiracy involved, these are the facts. Based on this FACT , we know that every tablet maker that is interested in making x86 based tablets has great motivation to use intel. Without that "contra revenue" we don't know what would have happened. They could have used ARM or even try out AMD for all we know or care.

http://tablet-news.com/2014/01/20/intel-paying-tablet-makers-who-use-bay-trail-chips-helping-with-the-engineering-costs/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2089421/how-intel-is-buying-a-piece-of-the-tablet-market.html
Edited by Kuivamaa - 4/2/14 at 8:31am
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post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

AMD doesn't have any appreciable business because their SOCs suck. Get over it. The only use they have is that they're cheap. And that really isn't enough in the current market because the market is willing to pay more for quality. That's why Apple sells so many ipads despite the price. This is why samsung sells so many phones despite being rather expensive. Quality. Consumers don't want a drive to the bottom quality with poor battery life, which is all AMD can provide on the mobile space.

This cuckoo conspiracy theory stuff is good for a laugh. I'll toss you a hint. The prior suit was from a decade ago when AMD had a performance lead over intel with their excellent then Athlon chips. AMD was a force to be reckoned with then, they had great products. Sadly, that AMD no longer exists. Instead, we have the current AMD who can only hash out inferior performance per watt year after year while their fan base cries with conspiracy theories. It's not that. It's an inferior product. Get over it. Bay Trail has superior CPU performance with insanely good PPW, while the core ultra low voltage SKUs have no answer from AMD. They're just better products. End of.

But if some fans want to provide laughing material with the conspiracy theory stuff, by all means. Do that.

At least AMD GPUs are competetive. I view AMD as a discrete GPU company and nothing else. On this front they're doing pretty good - the 290 cards are very competetive with what NV has. On the other hand, nothing AMD has is competetive with what intel has in terms of maximum performance or performance per watt. That's why their stuff doesn't get design wins in the mobile market.

I guess the same can be said about nvidia. tegra sucks ass.
post #44 of 54
Intel doesn't have to pay. They can just throw in their chipset for free and cut prices for the CPUs.
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post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by provost View Post

Intel doesn't have to pay. They can just throw in their chipset for free and cut prices for the CPUs.

They have to pay because OEMs don't see a lot of value in x86 tablets. ARM can be had for cheaper, and there is no overhead cost on the OS
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post #46 of 54
^This is correct. This is why Bay Trail is cheap.

Frankly, AMD is pretty laughable in terms of what they're offering for the mobile market at this time compared to ARM SOCs that are currently in proliferation. Intel probably doesn't even think about AMD as competition. But they do consider qualcomm, nvidia, samsung, etc etc etc their primary competitors for the low cost tablet market. Bay Trail is also very competitive in terms of CPU performance, it is faster than any android based ARM SOC on the market in terms of CPU - the only thing needing a bit of improvement is GPU. They offer the best CPU performance, excellent performance per watt, with decent graphics performance. That's all that needs to be said really. Bay Trail is an excellent product and it has been selling really well. Next quarter, Bay Trail will also be able to run Android x64.

AMD has no such product that is competitive, especially in terms of CPU performance and performance per watt. The primary competition for intel are custom ARM SOCs. They likely don't even give AMD a second thought; if AMD had an actual product for the ultra low power mobile market that didn't suck, maybe they would. But this is not the case. ARM SOCs are why the prices are what they are. But, again, it's hilarious to see the conspiracy theories. Always good for a daily laugh.

AMD is the desktop GPU company. In this respect they're doing very well. Their value desktop processors and APUs are also pretty good value for HTPC. I think AMD does well in those areas. And they have some great products in those segments. However, mobile is just not AMD's strength. I don't think they have any hope for the mobile market, but maybe they'll prove me wrong some day.
Edited by xoleras - 4/2/14 at 9:42am
post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

^This is correct. This is why Bay Trail is cheap.

Frankly, AMD is pretty laughable in terms of what they're offering for the mobile market at this time compared to ARM SOCs that are currently in proliferation. Intel probably doesn't even think about AMD as competition. But they do consider qualcomm, nvidia, samsung, etc etc etc their primary competitors for the low cost tablet market. Bay Trail is also very competitive in terms of CPU performance, it is faster than any android based ARM SOC on the market in terms of CPU - the only thing needing a bit of improvement is GPU. They offer the best CPU performance, excellent performance per watt, with decent graphics performance. That's all that needs to be said really. Bay Trail is an excellent product and it has been selling really well. Next quarter, Bay Trail will also be able to run Android x64.

AMD has no such product that is competitive, especially in terms of CPU performance and performance per watt. The primary competition for intel are custom ARM SOCs. They likely don't even give AMD a second thought; if AMD had an actual product for the ultra low power mobile market that didn't suck, maybe they would. But this is not the case. ARM SOCs are why the prices are what they are. But, again, it's hilarious to see the conspiracy theories. Always good for a daily laugh.

AMD is the desktop GPU company. In this respect they're doing very well. Their value desktop processors and APUs are also pretty good value for HTPC. I think AMD does well in those areas. And they have some great products in those segments. However, mobile is just not AMD's strength. I don't think they have any hope for the mobile market, but maybe they'll prove me wrong some day.
the funny part is watching you go ballistic. Coronary anyone?
post #48 of 54
If you say so. I think the more likely story is that the truth probably hurts your feelings. wink.gif

Like I said, AMD has their strengths. They have some great products in certain segments. dGPUs, APUs, I could go on, they have some good stuff there. However, ultra low power mobile is just not their strength, so the conspiracy theories are laughable given that fact. Whatever though. Back to work.
Edited by xoleras - 4/2/14 at 9:47am
post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

If you say so. I think the more likely story is that the truth probably hurts your feelings. wink.gif

Like I said, AMD has their strengths. They have some great products in certain segments. dGPUs, APUs, I could go on, they have some good stuff there. However, ultra low power mobile is just not their strength, so the conspiracy theories are laughable given that fact. Whatever though. Back to work.
you don't see me posting such in here. You seem to be the one with a dog in the fight. Your posts so far remind me why I don't take anything you say seriously.
post #50 of 54
Actually it is little core (same segment intel uses to get into tablets) that AMD is at their strongest (netbooks and super cheap laptops) , exactly because Intel initially didn't want to provide anything remotely decent fearing they would cannibalize "Core" product sales. Instead they offered the initial Atoms practically leaving that (low margin anyway) market to AMD with their cat family products. AMD just went a TDP class lower. Kinda pointless If you ask me - with ARM being the king and intel paying firms to use their chips, AMD could offer them for free and get nothing out of it. They might as well go for something else while there is still time.

Intel now has swifted their attention 100% to tablet/smartphone chips because ARM is eating away market share off latops. These are mostly intel based and people are swapping them for ARM based tablets worlwide, threatening Intel's business model. The problem is that ARM has a strong foothold in that category, unlike x86 which was Intel and microsoft fief. The ecosystem there is ARM/Android or ARM/iOS and not wintel which has major implications: First intel can't pull the same trick it did 12 years ago vs AMD and scare/bribe away OEM from ARM- most tablet/phone makers do not need intel the same way PC makers needed intel back in the day. Second it is not easy to establish your own benchmark suite to the press since there are other big,rich players pushing their own agenda and benchmarks just like intel. Third, mobile crowd (the masses,not enthusiasts) generally doesn't really care all that much of what type of processor their device is using. They are more inclined to follow a brand (Apple, Samsung etc) not a CPU maker. At the same time, these brands are happy with the situation as it is ( being able to get a cheap ARM licence and make their own stuff that is) . Last thing they want is to help intel depose ARM, create in mobile the same kind of monopoly it enjoys on PC then proceed to charge them with extreme prices.
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