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post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

I think you and Blameless have completely different types of 'security' in mind.

I mean "secure" as in your games have less of a chance of getting taken from you, you being taken for your money, or your game not working. What happens if you use a third party merchant for a Steam code and the key doesn't work? Steam isn't going to help you. And that third party merchant could care less as long as your payment went through. As for being more stable, when you do things through Steam, your game is much less prone to having problem thanks to automatic updates. There are also Steam support forums for your game problem updating and verifying game cache doesn't fix things. Your games are all stored in Steamapps/common which makes it much easier to find game files and fix things on your own. It is also safer to use your credit card with Steam than it is with most online merchants except for Amazon.

Of course, if you are a super computer wiz and can fix game files on your own, then some of this stuff doesn't apply to you. But how many of those people exist? And how many people honestly think it's safe to use a third party merchant for Steam keys? The only third party merchant who I find trustworthy is Amazon but that is because they are a large and legitimate online retailer.
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post #12 of 16
I'm with Thready.

+ You can't buy 98% of modern games from GoG so it's basically not an option for any gamer that likes to play games as they come out(I'm not gonna wait 20 years for Dragon Age: Inquisition to arrive on GoG for example).

Games are quickly moving into a purely digital age, especially PC games. Steam is by far the best and most secure service for buying games, not only do they allow you to buy games(and at great discounts usually), you get the whole 'experience', which includes the community, hubs, friends, marketplace and more. Origin is fine too it's just really useless and doesn't do anything Steam doesn't, so it's more of a burden to use is but EA owns Bioware so what can I do..

Eventually all the paranoid anti-DRM gamers are gonna have to move onto Steam or find a new hobby because discs are gonna be gone soon and Steam is only gaining in popularity among gamers and publishers/developers alike.
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

I mean "secure" as in your games have less of a chance of getting taken from you, you being taken for your money, or your game not working.

Well like I said, I don't think that was the kind of security Blameless had in mind. Perhaps he was thinking more along the lines of long term security in ownership of his games. GOG games have no reliance on a client program to run them. They will work independently forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

What happens if you use a third party merchant for a Steam code and the key doesn't work? Steam isn't going to help you. And that third party merchant could care less as long as your payment went through.

What does this have to do with anything? The discussion was around digital distribution services like GOG, from whom you buy games, not steam keys. Of course Steam isn't going to support bootleg Steam keys - it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. But it's completely irrelevant.

And for the love of God, it's "couldn't care less". Just think about the phrase for a minute. How do so many people miss the blatant contradiction there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

As for being more stable, when you do things through Steam, your game is much less prone to having problem thanks to automatic updates.

Patching games isn't rocket science, and 'automatic updates' are a double edged sword as I've said in countless other threads. 'Latest' is not always 'best'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

There are also Steam support forums for your game problem updating and verifying game cache doesn't fix things.

Wow, Steam has a forum, how novel. I barely ever use Steam's support forum - there's hardly a shortage of other forums from which one can obtain support for games. We're on one right now. Interestingly enough, most of my personal Steam support forum use has been trying to troubleshoot issues with Steam itself, ie. problems that wouldn't exist if I didn't have to use Steam in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

Your games are all stored in Steamapps/common which makes it much easier to find game files and fix things on your own.

That is possibly the most tragic pro-Steam argument I've heard to this day. What, you have trouble finding games in 'Program Files'? If anything, the Steamapps games take more clicks to get to. And it's not like Steam keeps everything in the same convenient directory (I could definitely see the value if it did). You still get cfg files etc. strewn around 'Appdata' and other directories. Steam also likes to keep some things like certain savegames in cryptically labelled (ie. string of random numbers) folders buried in the Steam directory. Sooo convenient as opposed to, you know, clearly labelled save directories in 'My Documents' or the game's master directory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

Of course, if you are a super computer wiz and can fix game files on your own, then some of this stuff doesn't apply to you. But how many of those people exist?

Oh, you mean PC enthusiasts? In case you haven't noticed, we're on an enthusient forum. Manually reinstalling a game in the rare even it's files get corrupted is probably not beyond even the most novice user. Personally, I use my super computer wiz proskills to drag a backup of the game's directory onto my NAS after installation, so that I can restore it at any time. It's an arduous 60 seconds, I don't know how I manage - but this is just the cost of being a super computer wiz I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

And how many people honestly think it's safe to use a third party merchant for Steam keys?

Again, why do you keep bringing this up?
Edited by Oubadah - 4/7/14 at 5:16pm
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post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

Well like I said, I don't think that was the kind of security Blameless had in mind. Perhaps he was thinking more along the lines of long term security in ownership of his games. GOG games have no reliance on a client program to run them. They will work independently forever.
What does this have to do with anything? The discussion was around digital distribution services like GOG, from whom you buy games, not steam keys. Of course Steam isn't going to support bootleg Steam keys - it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. But it's completely irrelevant.

And for the love of God, it's "couldn't care less". Just think about the phrase for a minute. How do so many people miss the blatant contradiction there?
Patching games isn't rocket science, and 'automatic updates' are a double edged sword as I've said in countless other threads. 'Latest' is not always 'best'.
Wow, Steam has a forum, how novel. I barely ever use Steam's support forum - there's hardly a shortage of other forums from which one can obtain support for games. We're on one right now. Interestingly enough, most of my personal Steam support forum use has been trying to troubleshoot issues with Steam itself, ie. problems that wouldn't exist if I didn't have to use Steam in the first place.


That is possibly the most tragic pro-Steam argument I've heard to this day. What, you have trouble finding games in 'Program Files'? If anything, the Steamapps games take more clicks to get to. And it's not like Steam keeps everything in the same convenient directory (I could definitely see the value if it did). You still get cfg files etc. strewn around 'Appdata' and other directories. Steam also likes to keep some things like certain savegames in cryptically labelled (ie. string of random numbers) folders buried in the Steam directory. Sooo convenient as opposed to, you know, clearly labelled save directories in 'My Documents' or the game's master directory.


Oh, you mean PC enthusiasts? In case you haven't noticed, we're on an enthusient forum. Manually reinstalling a game in the rare even it's files get corrupted is probably not beyond even the most novice user. Personally, I use my super computer wiz proskills to drag a backup of the game's directory onto my NAS after installation, so that I can restore it at any time. It's an arduous 60 seconds, I don't know how I manage - but this is just the cost of being a super computer wiz I suppose.
Again, why do you keep bringing this up?

1) not every computer enthusiast is a wizard at fixing computer problems. Being a PC enthusiast doesn't mean that all of us are experts at making a game run smoothly. I know it is hard for you to see us as people, but the truth is that most of us would be unequipped to handle something like a stop error or a crash analysis. I do not have that much software knowledge. Are you saying that I do not belong on OCN? It seems like you are saying this place is for people who are computer experts.

2) if you read into the point of my post, which you clearly did not, you would see that someone else asked why use GOG in the first place, and I added to that point by saying that Steam is the better option because I, along with the first few posters, were wondering why he needed the GOG downloads in the first place. And since many games only work on Steam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Steam_authentication

it is an appropriate topic to bring up.

3) Why did you even have to argue with the Steam forum concept? Many of us like Steam forums and use them frequently when discussing game problems. Oh wait, you just want to be a keyboard warrior and try to argue with all of my points. I get it.

4) "Patching games isn't rocket science, and 'automatic updates' are a double edged sword as I've said in countless other threads."

I have not nor do I intend to read your other threads. Why you would bring up that you have said this in countless other threads brings nothing to the table.

5) I just want to reiterate that many games (mostly new ones) require an authentication service such as Steam or Origin to play. GOG is not like the organic, whole food, community co-op game store that only does the right thing and never does the wrong thing. If many of us had to choose between buying a game on Steam or from GOG, I know for a fact that the vast majority of us would always choose Steam. Don't believe me? Put up a poll and ask yourself.

And with that being said, it is better to buy games on Steam than it is on GOG or whatever other non intrusive DRM website people want to buy them on.
Edited by Thready - 4/7/14 at 5:34pm
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post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

1) not every computer enthusiast is a wizard at fixing computer problems. Being a PC enthusiast doesn't mean that all of us are experts at making a game run smoothly. I know it is hard for you to see us as people, but the truth is that most of us would be unequipped to handle something like a stop error or a crash analysis.

And Steam is?

Evidently you missed the sarcasm, as my point was that you don't have to be an advanced user to acomplish manually what Steam does. Patching games? Any idiot can do that. restoring corrupt game data? If you installed the game in the first place, you're obviously going to be capable of reinstalling it.

Beyond that, Steam does not reduce the likelyhood of, or help resolve, in game errors. In fact, the Steam client itself adds another layer of potential for bugs/errors that might hamper your installing or playing of the game.

If you were by any chance referring to Steam's official customer support, then spare me. Steam support is a joke. You grow old waiting for a response, only for it to be a generic form, or 'contact the game developer'. Client bug fix requests also go ignored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

2) if you read into the point of my post, which you clearly did not, you would see that someone else asked why use GOG in the first place, and I added to that point by saying that Steam is the better option because I, along with the first few posters, were wondering why he needed the GOG downloads in the first place. And since many games only work on Steam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Steam_authentication

it is an appropriate topic to bring up.

Read your own post again. You were giving dire warnings about bootleg Steam keys. No one was contemplating the purchase of any Steam codes from third party merchants, they were talking about purchasing non-Steam games from GOG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

3) Why did you even have to argue with the Steam forum concept? Many of us like Steam forums and use them frequently when discussing game problems. Oh wait, you just want to be a keyboard warrior and try to argue with all of my points. I get it.

No, I don't think you 'get it' at all. You brought up Steam's forum like it was some unique boon of Steam. My point was that the internet is full of forums where people get support for games every day. The fact that Steam has one is no argument for Steam itself. GOG has it's own forum, should I use that as an argument for GOG?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

4) "Patching games isn't rocket science, and 'automatic updates' are a double edged sword as I've said in countless other threads."

I have not nor do I intend to read your other threads. Why you would bring up that you have said this in countless other threads brings nothing to the table.

I summarised the content of the abovementioned threads in my last sentence which you conveniently excluded.
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post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

And Steam is?

Evidently you missed the sarcasm, as my point was that you don't have to be an advanced user to acomplish manually what Steam does. Patching games? Any idiot can do that. restoring corrupt game data? If you installed the game in the first place, you're obviously going to be capable of reinstalling it.

Beyond that, Steam does not reduce the likelyhood of, or help resolve, in game errors. In fact, the Steam client itself adds another layer of potential for bugs/errors that might hamper your installing or playing of the game.

If you were by any chance referring to Steam's official customer support, then spare me. Steam support is a joke. You grow old waiting for a response, only for it to be a generic form, or 'contact the game developer'. Client bug fix requests also go ignored.
Read your own post again. You were giving dire warnings about bootleg Steam keys. No one was contemplating the purchase of any Steam codes from third party merchants, they were talking about purchasing non-Steam games from GOG.
No, I don't think you 'get it' at all. You brought up Steam's forum like it was some unique boon of Steam. My point was that the internet is full of forums where people get support for games every day. The fact that Steam has one is no argument for Steam itself. GOG has it's own forum, should I use that as an argument for GOG?
I summarised the content of the abovementioned threads in my last sentence which you conveniently excluded.

TLDR
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