Overclock.net › Forums › General Hardware › General Processor Discussions › amd vs intel confused still
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

amd vs intel confused still - Page 2

post #11 of 99
AMD Competes well on a price/performance when it comes to multithread performance, not so much when it comes to single.

Problem is Intel's 4770k can overclock higher and still competes well with a 8 core AMD chip even while overclocked. AMD can't even touch Intel's 6 core chips, and that goes for first gen intel 6 cores as well.


A X5650 (or i7 970) @ 4.0-4.4ghz on a Supported X58 motherboard would trounce a 4.8-5ghz FX8350. And the X5650 is from 2010 BTW.

The upcoming Haswell-E chips with make the gap even bigger.


Problem is a Piledriver module can only compete with at best a Ivy Bridge HT core in Multithread situations that favors it. Clock for Clock Intel will tend to be better, considering the max OC is around the same for both intel and AMD. What AMD needs is a 6-8 Module chip for customers.
Red Dragon
(19 items)
 
HTPC
(20 items)
 
HomeServer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2600K @4.8ghz Asrock p67 Extreme4 GTX1080 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB 9-11-11-31 2133MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3x 640 WD blacks Raid 0 Mushkin Enhanced Reactor 512GB SSD Sandisk 1TB SSD Samsung 470 Series 128GB SSD 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
XSPC Raystorm Windows 10 64bit Microboard m340clz 100hz 3440x1440 Corsair K70 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
TX850 HAF922 Logitech G502 Creative Sound Blaster Z  
AudioAudioAudio
Elac B6 & Dayton Audio SUB-800 Yamaha HTR-5790 Audio Technica ATH-A700 headphones 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q9550 @ 4GHZ Gigabyte EP45 UD3P GTX470 4GB OCZ Reaper 1150mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Western Digital Blue 500gb OCZ Vertex 2 60GB LG Bluray Corsair H50 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Home Premium  Logitech K400 Corsair CX500 nMEDIAPC 6000B 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Yamaha HTR-5063 PS3 80GB BC PS3 with 250GB hard drive. Polk Audio Monitor 60s Bi-AMP Front Polk Audio Monitor 30s Rear 
OtherOther
Polk Audio CS1 Center Polk Audio PSW10 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon Harpertown 3.6ghz Asus P5Q SE/R HD7770 4GB DDR2 800mhz Corsair 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
5TB Toshiba 5TB Toshiba 5TB Toshiba 2TB Hitachi 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
2TB Seagate 2TB Western Digital 1TB Hitachi Windows Home Server 2011 
Power
Corsair CX500 
  hide details  
Reply
Red Dragon
(19 items)
 
HTPC
(20 items)
 
HomeServer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2600K @4.8ghz Asrock p67 Extreme4 GTX1080 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB 9-11-11-31 2133MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3x 640 WD blacks Raid 0 Mushkin Enhanced Reactor 512GB SSD Sandisk 1TB SSD Samsung 470 Series 128GB SSD 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
XSPC Raystorm Windows 10 64bit Microboard m340clz 100hz 3440x1440 Corsair K70 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
TX850 HAF922 Logitech G502 Creative Sound Blaster Z  
AudioAudioAudio
Elac B6 & Dayton Audio SUB-800 Yamaha HTR-5790 Audio Technica ATH-A700 headphones 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q9550 @ 4GHZ Gigabyte EP45 UD3P GTX470 4GB OCZ Reaper 1150mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Western Digital Blue 500gb OCZ Vertex 2 60GB LG Bluray Corsair H50 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Home Premium  Logitech K400 Corsair CX500 nMEDIAPC 6000B 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Yamaha HTR-5063 PS3 80GB BC PS3 with 250GB hard drive. Polk Audio Monitor 60s Bi-AMP Front Polk Audio Monitor 30s Rear 
OtherOther
Polk Audio CS1 Center Polk Audio PSW10 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon Harpertown 3.6ghz Asus P5Q SE/R HD7770 4GB DDR2 800mhz Corsair 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
5TB Toshiba 5TB Toshiba 5TB Toshiba 2TB Hitachi 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
2TB Seagate 2TB Western Digital 1TB Hitachi Windows Home Server 2011 
Power
Corsair CX500 
  hide details  
Reply
post #12 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMKR View Post

Then how come an 4670 performs better than fx8xxx? Is it just due to the types of programs running on benchmarks?
Cuz it seems like the standard for gaming is either a fx8320/8350 or a 4670. U would think the 8 core would be better than the 4core

Intel is far ahead of AMD so think of it more that Intel out-performs AMD in single thread tasks, and AMD keeps up with Intel in Multi threaded tasks.
In some specific cases AMD can perform better against some Intel CPU's.

Intel single core performance is much faster than AMD so any program that is Multi-threaded but only partially will benefit a lot more from an Intel chip.
Many games still rely on 1 primary thread and share some of the programming across other threads. In the case of Planetside 2 for example the primary game runs on 1 thread, the GUI runs on another thread, and some network processes can run on a 3rd thread. A game like Crysis 3 or BF4 would be able to take full advantage of an 8 core AMD chip and would perform well.

The best advice when selecting a CPU is to look at benchmarks for programs you want to run. An AMD chip may run a program great despite being a slower CPU than an Intel chip.
The fx8350 and 4670 are "gaming" chips because they offer good performance for the price to play games.

The whole core count isn't a great predictor of performance anymore.. Really the best thing to do is look at benchmarks.
Rig 2.0
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Asus P8Z77-V EVGA GTX780 SC ACX Samsung DDR 3 (2 DIMMS) MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 830 SSD WD Caviar Black Asus DVD/RW Xigmatek s-1283 HDT (Air Cooling) 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Scythe Slipstream 1200RPM (x2) Antec 140mm + Antec 120mm + Xigmatek 120mm (x2) Win 7 64bit Acer S243HL bmii - 24" 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX750 Corsair Carbide 300R MX 518 Auzentek X-Fi Forte 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Rig 2.0
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Asus P8Z77-V EVGA GTX780 SC ACX Samsung DDR 3 (2 DIMMS) MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 830 SSD WD Caviar Black Asus DVD/RW Xigmatek s-1283 HDT (Air Cooling) 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Scythe Slipstream 1200RPM (x2) Antec 140mm + Antec 120mm + Xigmatek 120mm (x2) Win 7 64bit Acer S243HL bmii - 24" 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX750 Corsair Carbide 300R MX 518 Auzentek X-Fi Forte 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

Pick a random number from 1-10 for X, then choose a random number from 1-X. Eventually you end up with 1-X, X being 1.
As each step needs X to be solved, how exactly would a multicore CPU help in such a task?

It's not crappy devs.

So the developer not coding to make use of the multicore processor is of no relevance?
   
Work Rig
(22 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-6850K 4.5 GHz  ASUS TUF SABERTOOTH X99 LGA2011-V3  Asus STRIX GTX 980 ~1600 Core Asus STRIX GTX 980 ~1600 Core 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB 3000MHz HyperX Savage DDR4  Samsung 850 Pro 512GB SSD  Samsung 256GB SM951 M.2 SSD PCIe 3.0 x 4 (PE246... WD 3TB Black SATA 6Gbs 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
WD 4TB Red in RAID 1 WD 4TB Red in RAID 1 ICY DOCK DuoSwap MB971SP-B Fits 5.25" Bay allo... LG WH14NS40 14x SATA Blu-ray Internal Rewriter 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
CPU - Corsair Hydro H110  GPU x 2 - Nzxt G-10 x 2 + Corsair H-90 x 2  Lamptron FC-5 V2 Fan Controller 4 Aerocool Dead Silence 140mm Fans on the radia... 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit LINUX KXStudio AOC i2769Vm 27-Inch Screen IPS Monitor AOC i2769Vm 27-Inch Screen IPS Monitor 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
AOC i2769Vm 27-Inch Screen IPS Monitor BENQ GW2250 +1 Monitor Easymountlcd Triple Monitor Stand (002-0019) Homemade Extension and vesa mount for +1 Monitor 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Top - CM Storm QuickFire TK (Red) Bottom - CM ... EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2 - 80 Plus Gold Corsair Carbide Series 400R Cooler Master Storm Inferno 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Top of the Desk TUF Onboard Audio Cyber Acoustics Platinum CA-3550 Logitech H390 Headset 
OtherOtherOtherOther
ASUS Wi-Fi PCI Express Adapter/400 upto 800 Mbp... Tripp Lite Isobar Supressor CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD 900 Watt Pure Sinewave UPS Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick 
Other
upHere (3.5 inch Bay)Multi Function Card Reader... 
  hide details  
Reply
   
Work Rig
(22 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-6850K 4.5 GHz  ASUS TUF SABERTOOTH X99 LGA2011-V3  Asus STRIX GTX 980 ~1600 Core Asus STRIX GTX 980 ~1600 Core 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB 3000MHz HyperX Savage DDR4  Samsung 850 Pro 512GB SSD  Samsung 256GB SM951 M.2 SSD PCIe 3.0 x 4 (PE246... WD 3TB Black SATA 6Gbs 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
WD 4TB Red in RAID 1 WD 4TB Red in RAID 1 ICY DOCK DuoSwap MB971SP-B Fits 5.25" Bay allo... LG WH14NS40 14x SATA Blu-ray Internal Rewriter 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
CPU - Corsair Hydro H110  GPU x 2 - Nzxt G-10 x 2 + Corsair H-90 x 2  Lamptron FC-5 V2 Fan Controller 4 Aerocool Dead Silence 140mm Fans on the radia... 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit LINUX KXStudio AOC i2769Vm 27-Inch Screen IPS Monitor AOC i2769Vm 27-Inch Screen IPS Monitor 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
AOC i2769Vm 27-Inch Screen IPS Monitor BENQ GW2250 +1 Monitor Easymountlcd Triple Monitor Stand (002-0019) Homemade Extension and vesa mount for +1 Monitor 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Top - CM Storm QuickFire TK (Red) Bottom - CM ... EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2 - 80 Plus Gold Corsair Carbide Series 400R Cooler Master Storm Inferno 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Top of the Desk TUF Onboard Audio Cyber Acoustics Platinum CA-3550 Logitech H390 Headset 
OtherOtherOtherOther
ASUS Wi-Fi PCI Express Adapter/400 upto 800 Mbp... Tripp Lite Isobar Supressor CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD 900 Watt Pure Sinewave UPS Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick 
Other
upHere (3.5 inch Bay)Multi Function Card Reader... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #14 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultisym View Post

So the developer not coding to make use of the multicore processor is of no relevance?

Not sure what happened there, but I'm in that quote???
Anywho... I'd say that depends on the engine and how easy it is to assign threads to processes. If the engine can use 2 threads but is hard coded for 1 core then it might be impossible to force the engine to use 8 threads.

Also depends if the developer is programming the engine or creating with the tools of an engine.
Rig 2.0
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Asus P8Z77-V EVGA GTX780 SC ACX Samsung DDR 3 (2 DIMMS) MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 830 SSD WD Caviar Black Asus DVD/RW Xigmatek s-1283 HDT (Air Cooling) 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Scythe Slipstream 1200RPM (x2) Antec 140mm + Antec 120mm + Xigmatek 120mm (x2) Win 7 64bit Acer S243HL bmii - 24" 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX750 Corsair Carbide 300R MX 518 Auzentek X-Fi Forte 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Rig 2.0
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Asus P8Z77-V EVGA GTX780 SC ACX Samsung DDR 3 (2 DIMMS) MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 830 SSD WD Caviar Black Asus DVD/RW Xigmatek s-1283 HDT (Air Cooling) 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Scythe Slipstream 1200RPM (x2) Antec 140mm + Antec 120mm + Xigmatek 120mm (x2) Win 7 64bit Acer S243HL bmii - 24" 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX750 Corsair Carbide 300R MX 518 Auzentek X-Fi Forte 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #15 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultisym View Post

So the developer not coding to make use of the multicore processor is of no relevance?

No, games often ARE coded for multi-core performance but certain things are impossible to benefit from such things, and those are often the core logic and AI parts of the game.

Audio processing.. texture decompression, loading stuff, can be thrown on another core or however many you want but it won't usually matter as they don't carry most of the load with them.

Newer games throw some Physics and stuff on other cores, but the core stuff remains the same.
Fast single-thread performance is always going to be important.

Think PhysX, it's able to be switched around from CPU to GPU for processing, but it doesn't actually affect the gameplay. It's just extra effects added onto the already processed scenes.
i7 Sandy
(8 items)
 
Skylake Pentium
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600K ASRock Z75 Pro3 GTX 970 16GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
250GB Samsung 850 Evo WinXP Pro / Win7 Pro 1080p 60Hz Thermaltake Smart M850W 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Pentium G4400 ASRock H110M-HDV GTX 550 Ti 8GB (2x4) 
Hard DriveOSPowerOther
250GB SSD Windows 7 500W 300Mbps WLAN 
  hide details  
Reply
i7 Sandy
(8 items)
 
Skylake Pentium
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600K ASRock Z75 Pro3 GTX 970 16GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
250GB Samsung 850 Evo WinXP Pro / Win7 Pro 1080p 60Hz Thermaltake Smart M850W 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Pentium G4400 ASRock H110M-HDV GTX 550 Ti 8GB (2x4) 
Hard DriveOSPowerOther
250GB SSD Windows 7 500W 300Mbps WLAN 
  hide details  
Reply
post #16 of 99
In time to come the cores of both intel and amd will be better utilized - I am hoping that the jag chips in consoles are going to pave the way for game developers. A big hope thumb.gif
post #17 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

AMD Competes well on a price/performance when it comes to multithread performance, not so much when it comes to single.

Problem is Intel's 4770k can overclock higher and still competes well with a 8 core AMD chip even while overclocked. AMD can't even touch Intel's 6 core chips, and that goes for first gen intel 6 cores as well.


A X5650 (or i7 970) @ 4.0-4.4ghz on a Supported X58 motherboard would trounce a 4.8-5ghz FX8350. And the X5650 is from 2010 BTW.

The upcoming Haswell-E chips with make the gap even bigger.


Problem is a Piledriver module can only compete with at best a Ivy Bridge HT core in Multithread situations that favors it. Clock for Clock Intel will tend to be better, considering the max OC is around the same for both intel and AMD. What AMD needs is a 6-8 Module chip for customers.

There's a slight problem with your logic though, The i7 was nearly 600 bucks and the x5650 was 1 grand. The fx 8350 is 200 bucks... and already 2 years old.

If HT is what I remember it was, it isn't all that great, basically all it does is switch threads/tasks when it gets hung up on waiting for data, it's not that great to be honest.

AMD's processors are 2 years old, and you're comparing it to a brand new processor, honestly, quite broken logic.

Hopefully AMD decides to get back into enthusiast CPUs, intel is obviously taking advantage of no competition and is stagnating, maybe AMD can make AM4 for DDR4...
Ol' Reliable
(16 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core 2 duo e6600 Asus p5n8 None 2gb corsair 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSCase
1999 called, they want their 60gb back. none Arch Linux Free willy 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X2 N620 2.8ghz Socketed HP SGS1 HD 4250 4 gb DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
500gb 5400 RPM DVD writer with LIGHTSCRIBE :D! Laptop cooling ftl Debian Lenny 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
15in 1378x768 Rubber dome chiclet keys Red ceramic brick HP 15inch 
  hide details  
Reply
Ol' Reliable
(16 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core 2 duo e6600 Asus p5n8 None 2gb corsair 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSCase
1999 called, they want their 60gb back. none Arch Linux Free willy 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X2 N620 2.8ghz Socketed HP SGS1 HD 4250 4 gb DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
500gb 5400 RPM DVD writer with LIGHTSCRIBE :D! Laptop cooling ftl Debian Lenny 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
15in 1378x768 Rubber dome chiclet keys Red ceramic brick HP 15inch 
  hide details  
Reply
post #18 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

A X5650 (or i7 970) @ 4.0-4.4ghz on a Supported X58 motherboard would trounce a 4.8-5ghz FX8350. And the X5650 is from 2010 BTW.

The i7-970@ 4.2ghz would actually match the FX-8350@4.9ghz very closely in all sorts of workloads, lightly threaded and highly parallel and everything in-between. The X58 and AM3+ platforms are often considered to be the most well "matched" novelty-class system builds these days.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantron View Post

There's a slight problem with your logic though, The i7 was nearly 600 bucks and the x5650 was 1 grand.

There's nothing wrong with comparing a subaru to a mclaren.. Top Gear does it all the time. Everyone knows they have different prices and that is all part of the comparison. 4WD doesn't mean the subaru is better at everything. The idea being conveyed here, is that having more cores doesn't make a CPU better in and of itself, as the 8 core AMD chips are only competing with 4 core Intel chips in most cases.
Quote:
If HT is what I remember it was, it isn't all that great, basically all it does is switch threads/tasks when it gets hung up on waiting for data, it's not that great to be honest.
Read about SMT vs CMT scaling. Both technologies work great. Intels implementation involves much shorter pipline and very high IPC from a single thread per dual-threaded core and minor (up to ~30%) scaling from SMT. AMD implementation involves a longer pipeline, lower IPC from a single thread per module, and high (up to ~80% or better) scaling from CMT. Both technologies are deviations from the traditional CPU "core" from years past.
Quote:
AMD's processors are 2 years old, and you're comparing it to a brand new processor, honestly, quite broken logic.
AMD doesn't need a participation trophy or a fairness doctrine to offer a competitive alternative. I would be insulted if I were AMD and enthusiasts were stooping to this sort of apologetic excuses mentality. The FX chip can compete on it's own merit when it is priced correctly (which it is) and implemented by users who can appreciate and/or take advantage of it's strengths and/or novelties.
Quote:
Hopefully AMD decides to get back into enthusiast CPUs, intel is obviously taking advantage of no competition and is stagnating, maybe AMD can make AM4 for DDR4...

I would hardly call Intel stagnating. They have maintained steady increases in all key areas of CPU performance over the last 5 years. IPC is up, efficiency is up, parallel workload performance is up, single threaded performance is up, FPU performance is up, integer instruction performance is up, iGPU performance is up. Every new generation of CPUs from them has seen an improvement in every area without any regressions of performance. Compare the performance of the i7-4770 with the i7-950. That's a ~+75% performance improvement in 4 years without any additional parallelism required all while working up against the confines of semi-conductor tech that isn't improving.
Edited by mdocod - 4/3/14 at 1:09pm
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
post #19 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

There's nothing wrong with comparing a subaru to a mclaren.. Top Gear does it all the time. Everyone knows they have different prices and that is all part of the comparison. 4WD doesn't mean the subaru is better at everything. The idea being conveyed here, is that having more cores doesn't make a CPU better in and of itself, as the 8 core AMD chips are only competing with 4 core Intel chips in most cases.
Yes you can compare a subaru to a mclaren, but does that make much sense? Not in the slightest, they are for different people and different workloads. I wasn't saying the 8 core was better than the 4 core, I'm saying comparing a top of the line i7 makes very little sense to compare it to an fx 8350.
Quote:
Read about SMT vs CMT scaling. Both technologies work great. Intels implementation involves much shorter pipline and very high IPC from a single thread per dual-threaded core and minor (up to ~30%) scaling from SMT. AMD implementation involves a longer pipeline, lower IPC from a single thread per module, and high (up to ~80% or better) scaling from CMT. Both technologies are deviations from the traditional CPU "core" from years past.
Utter trash and absolute bollocks. Hyper threading does not improve IPC and does not involve a shorter pipeline. Hyper threading simply uses the same cache and execution areas as a normal core. It is out of order execution to improve multitasking, it does not improve IPC in any possible way.
Quote:
AMD doesn't need a participation trophy or a fairness doctrine to offer a competitive alternative. I would be insulted if I were AMD and enthusiasts were stooping to this sort of apologetic excuses mentality. The FX chip can compete on it's own merit when it is priced correctly (which it is) and implemented by users who can appreciate and/or take advantage of it's strengths and/or novelties.
I'm not saying it needs a "participation trophy" or a "fairness doctrine". I'm simply stating that the top end CPU from AMD is two years old now, it should be very obvious that intel is able to improve on its cpus, while AMD hasn't changed since then.

You are acting absolutely silly, this isn't a mentality, it's bloody logic to understand that in two years can make a lot of a difference. You're basically telling me it is stupid to say that a pentium 4 user should suck it up and not need logic when comparing to a core 2 duo, one much older than the other, similar to the fx 8350 vs i7 4770k or the i7 970. Those 3 CPUs also were for different markets, and the funny thing is the i7 970 barely beats out the fx.
Quote:
I would hardly call Intel stagnating. They have maintained steady increases in all key areas of CPU performance over the last 5 years. IPC is up, efficiency is up, parallel workload performance is up, single threaded performance is up, FPU performance is up, integer instruction performance is up, iGPU performance is up. Every new generation of CPUs from them has seen an improvement in every area without any regressions of performance. Compare the performance of the i7-4770 with the i7-950. That's a ~+75% performance improvement in 4 years without any additional parallelism required all while working up against the confines of semi-conductor tech that isn't improving.
If you looked past blatant fanboyism for a moment, you'd realize that intel HAS been stagnating, performance gains have dropped significantly since AMD stopped competing well. Please show me benchmarks from a reliable source that shows the the i7 4770k is nearly double as fast as the i7 950, because I haven't found any. Considering semi-conductor tech has been improving both with different methods and die shrinking, that statement is invalid.

Yes AMD processors are definitely worse than intel ones. But the arguments you have provided are absolute and total bollocks.
Ol' Reliable
(16 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core 2 duo e6600 Asus p5n8 None 2gb corsair 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSCase
1999 called, they want their 60gb back. none Arch Linux Free willy 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X2 N620 2.8ghz Socketed HP SGS1 HD 4250 4 gb DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
500gb 5400 RPM DVD writer with LIGHTSCRIBE :D! Laptop cooling ftl Debian Lenny 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
15in 1378x768 Rubber dome chiclet keys Red ceramic brick HP 15inch 
  hide details  
Reply
Ol' Reliable
(16 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core 2 duo e6600 Asus p5n8 None 2gb corsair 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSCase
1999 called, they want their 60gb back. none Arch Linux Free willy 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X2 N620 2.8ghz Socketed HP SGS1 HD 4250 4 gb DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
500gb 5400 RPM DVD writer with LIGHTSCRIBE :D! Laptop cooling ftl Debian Lenny 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
15in 1378x768 Rubber dome chiclet keys Red ceramic brick HP 15inch 
  hide details  
Reply
post #20 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultisym View Post

So the developer not coding to make use of the multicore processor is of no relevance?

The task mentioned was a serial one and nothing could make it multi-threaded.

That was the point. No matter how much you devote to multithreading, there will always been tasks that will benefit from a single powerful core. Yes, multithreading can, should, and will improve, but strong individual cores will never be useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantron View Post

If HT is what I remember it was, it isn't all that great, basically all it does is switch threads/tasks when it gets hung up on waiting for data

Hyperthreading uses a second front-end to run a thread in what would otherwise be gaps in the execution pipeline, allowing more efficient use of a core's execution resources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantron View Post

it's not that great to be honest.

Hyperthreading is damn good in terms of performance per watt and performance for the die area it requires. Even in raw performance terms, it's quite handy in most well threaded scenarios.
Primary
(15 items)
 
Secondary
(13 items)
 
In progress
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820K @ 4.3/3.6GHz core/uncore, 1.225/1.2v Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion (F22n) 2x Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X OC New Edition (10036... 4x4GiB Crucial @ 2667, 12-11-12-27-T1, 1.37v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Plextor M6e 128GB (fw 1.05) M.2 (PCI-E 2.0 2x) 2x Crucial M4 256GB 4x WD Scorpio Black 500GB Cooler Master Nepton 280L 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 BenQ BL3200PT Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless (MX Brown) Corsair RM1000x 
CaseMouseAudio
Fractal Design Define R4 Logitech G402 Realtek ALC1150 + M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5670 @ 4.4/3.2GHz core/uncore, 1.36 vcore, 1.2... Gigabyte X58A-UD5 r2.0 w/FF3mod10 BIOS Reference R9 290X w/Stilt's MLU 1000e / 1375m E... 2x Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US @ 2000, 10-11-11-30-T1,... 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Crucial BLT4G3D1608ET3LX0 @ 2000, 10-11-11-3... OCZ (Toshiba) Trion 150 120GB Hyundai Sapphire 120GB 3x Hitachi Deskstar 7k1000.C 1TB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 Antec TP-750 Fractal Design R5 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DS 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6800K @ 4.3/3.5GHz core/uncore, 1.36/1.2v ASRock X99 OC Formula (P3.10) GTX 780 (temporary) 4x4GiB Crucial DDR4-2400 @ 11-13-12-28-T2, 1.33v 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
  hide details  
Reply
Primary
(15 items)
 
Secondary
(13 items)
 
In progress
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820K @ 4.3/3.6GHz core/uncore, 1.225/1.2v Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion (F22n) 2x Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X OC New Edition (10036... 4x4GiB Crucial @ 2667, 12-11-12-27-T1, 1.37v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Plextor M6e 128GB (fw 1.05) M.2 (PCI-E 2.0 2x) 2x Crucial M4 256GB 4x WD Scorpio Black 500GB Cooler Master Nepton 280L 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 BenQ BL3200PT Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless (MX Brown) Corsair RM1000x 
CaseMouseAudio
Fractal Design Define R4 Logitech G402 Realtek ALC1150 + M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5670 @ 4.4/3.2GHz core/uncore, 1.36 vcore, 1.2... Gigabyte X58A-UD5 r2.0 w/FF3mod10 BIOS Reference R9 290X w/Stilt's MLU 1000e / 1375m E... 2x Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US @ 2000, 10-11-11-30-T1,... 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Crucial BLT4G3D1608ET3LX0 @ 2000, 10-11-11-3... OCZ (Toshiba) Trion 150 120GB Hyundai Sapphire 120GB 3x Hitachi Deskstar 7k1000.C 1TB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 Antec TP-750 Fractal Design R5 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DS 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6800K @ 4.3/3.5GHz core/uncore, 1.36/1.2v ASRock X99 OC Formula (P3.10) GTX 780 (temporary) 4x4GiB Crucial DDR4-2400 @ 11-13-12-28-T2, 1.33v 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Processor Discussions
Overclock.net › Forums › General Hardware › General Processor Discussions › amd vs intel confused still