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Temp Sensor Recalibration? - Page 2

post #11 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

http://wiki.reuseum.com/_media/TTF3A103_tw.pdf
Dude thanx.
But they don't pay me for my brains I have to get by on my looks alone. So I don't understand a thing about that doc. tongue.gif
Trying to learn about pots right now, and figuring out which one I need
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post #12 of 33
If you look at page 3 it has a graph of temp v resistance

From here
http://store.reuseum.com/Thermistor_10K_Ohm_NTC_TTF_103_Temperature_Sensor_p/900072713025dd13ls.htm

That looks like adding any resistance will only make the sensor think it is colder rather than warmer.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 4/2/14 at 10:10pm
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post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

http://wiki.reuseum.com/_media/TTF3A103_tw.pdf

That would be for an NTC, which would seem to be the right thing. At least, the Aquero uses 10k NTCs and they seem to be pretty standard.

The bad news is that it means a resistor won't work - an NTC, or Negative Temperature Coefficient, thermistor reduces its resistance as temperature rises. This means that adding in a resistor would have the effect of simulating a lower temperature rather than a higher one.

I'm not sure what options are left to you now, better and less tired minds than my own will be needed.
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post #14 of 33
Thread Starter 
I only know enough about electronics to be dangerous.
While I was looking at that page 3 graph, I was trying to tell myself that lower omh value means more resistance. biggrin.gif

So here's my layman's understanding of all this.

The controller sends a current throught the sensor.
How much current comes back on the other side, is indicative of the temperature.
Less current back (less amps or less volts?) Indicates a lower temp.
And more current indicates a higher temp.
So I have to find a way to decrease resistance, or just boost the current that goes back to the controller.

So let's assume the current sent by the controller is 12V, 1 amp, and it's constant.
It comes back as 12V, 4 amp, indicating that it's 20° C
I need it to read 12V, 4.1 amp to fool it into thinking it's 25° C.

So what if I add a 12V feed from the PSU, with a pot on it to add 0.1 amp?

This might not work if the controller signal is intermitant, as I'd have to match the signal frequency.
Unless the switching is done on the ground side of it. (fingers crossed)

Can you think of a flaw in my thinking?
Am I looking at this the right way?
Or perhaps it's the voltage that drops with resistance? But I don't think so.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 4/3/14 at 9:31am
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post #15 of 33
Thread Starter 
Okay, resistance will cause a voltage drop, I just checked.
So I have to find a way to increase voltage

I might be able to do this by adding a -5V on a pot from the PSU.....correct?
I gotta find a way to boost the voltage returned to the controller.
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post #16 of 33
can't you trick the reading ? it might be easier i think , otherwise you can try with a 10kohm potentionmeter in parallel with the sensor and look at what it does on the reading. put it directly on the plug wirewrap style and no need to cut any cable.
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post #17 of 33
OK, so I managed to think about this a bit after some sleep. You can lower the resistance by putting another resistor in parallel.

The total resistance of parallel resistors can be calculated by RT = 1/ (1/R1 + 1/R2)


It's actually quite simple, but will not be terribly accurate. Going off the data sheet that Jakusonfire posted above, you would need a resistance of 56000Ω (56kΩ) in parallel with your sensor (assuming a 10kΩ NTC thermistor with a B value of 3435K)). A potentiometer would still be better so that you can calibrate the reading.

You can improve the accuracy very slightly by adding in a second temp probe in series with the extra resistor - this will help with temperature correction. You would then need a resistor of 43800Ω (43.8kΩ), again a potentiometer would be preferred for calibration. This only gives a few percentage points of accuracy on the extreme ends of the range so not really worth it.

Note that doing this will increase the temperature reading by ~5°C over the entire range, not just raise the minimum temperature reading. That would be possible but a little harder.

I have attached my calculation, including a quick and dirty sketch, so you can check my work.

NTCthermistor.xlsx 26k .xlsx file
Edited by GingerJohn - 4/3/14 at 11:16am
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post #18 of 33
Seems a massive effort to go to just for a software problem in the controller. These are the reasons Aquaero's are worth the money.
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post #19 of 33
John is on track here.

With a negative temp coefficient sensor, where resistance goes down as temp goes up, you'd need to have a way to lower the resistance to have it read high.

Putting a pot in parallel is the easiest way, try a 50k, or 100k if you can't find a 50k, and you'll be able to get 25 when it's really 20.

The issue with that is, is that it won't be linear.

It'll be more than 5 high at the higher end, and less than 5 hi at the lower end.

If you can work with that, go for it.

Otherwise you'd need an active offset circuit.


Darlene
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

The issue with that is, is that it won't be linear.
It'll be more than 5 high at the higher end, and less than 5 hi at the lower end.
If you can work with that, go for it.

Other way round, but yes, it isn't linear.

From the calculation I did at 50°C actual it would read 52.2°C, at 15°C actual it would read 20.8°C. It isn't too bad, but still not accurate.

I agree with Jakusonfire though, it is a lot easier with a software controlled system which allows for sensor calibration.
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