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post #31 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Shoddy PSU? There is nothing wrong with EVGA, it is made my HEC and backed by EVGA.

There's nothing wrong with EVGA, there is a lot of stuff wrong with a lot of the PSUs they have sold under their name. The HEC OEMed units have crap reliability trending, some of the highest failure rates among mainstream branded PSUs anywhere.
Quote:
Considering the load on it, it is perfectly suitable and built plenty fine.

Load becomes irrelevant when dealing with this sort of quality. It has a high failure rate regardless of load.
Quote:
That being said, I could easily drop a more expensive and overbuilt PSU like a Seasonic in there, and still be far lower cost than your build.

I encourage it!
Quote:
Also, what shoddy parts? If you want to take a dig at my system, be a man about it and point things out instead of beating around the bush.

I did, I explained that the RAM chosen barely meets JEDEC standard minimums and the motherboard is comparable to what is found in an eMachine. Yes MSI has an OEM division and yes they sell those same types of motherboards under different model numbers in bulk to PC makers. All of the mainstream motherboard makers build a few low-end boards to meet OEM division demands. They are usually re-named, boxed and sold to the public as entry level motherboards. There's no advantage to that E33 over an ECS junker. Asus, Gigabtye, MSI, ALL make a few boards like this.
Quote:
Everything in my system is from a major manufacturer that stands behind their products, without question.
Whether or not a company "stands" behind their product has never been a significant standard by which hardware enthusiasts use to discern quality and value. All new products have warranties. The only time it even comes up is when we're getting down to the nuances of comparing very similar products, in which case a 2 yea vs 3 year warranty may be something that is taken into consideration. The quality of the product always trumps warranty considerations in enthusiast markets.
Quote:
Not really,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6la8xnjBUE

The video was done with a 7770 GPU, and a 4770K tuned down to the specs of the 3220. The bottleneck ended up being the GPU at medium, and even with a 7770 was pulling 40 FPS.



10FPS minimums on a pentium from the same source ( http://gamerthumbs.com/ ). Sorry, like I said the G3220 is an awesome little chip but not for BF4. An i3/i5 or FX-63/83 series is really the sweet spot here.


Considerations to improve on the latest greatest build...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

CPU: Intel Core i5-4430 3.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($180.50 @ Newegg)
An excellent choice. Alternatively the 4440 is usually about the same price, and the E3-1220V3 is only $15 more right now at newegg, higher clocks bigger cache, enterprise class nostalgia.
Quote:
Motherboard: Asus H81M-PLUS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Micro Center)
I would not personally put an 80W chip on that tightly packed 3 phase power motherboard. I don't care if it's from Asus, this motherboard falls into that "minimum standards" class that is not well suited to heavy workloads due to the lack of VRM robustness. I would be more inclined to trust it if they had SPREAD out the MOSFETS a bit more, but they didn't. There's going to be a really nasty hot spot on this motherboard while the CPU works hard in BF4.

The less expensive Biostar Hi-Fi B85S3+ is actually more feature rich and has a better VRM design IMO. (the 4 phase is spread out across a wider area of the board, and in these motherboards without VRM heat-sinking, the board itself is the primary heatsink.). Alternatively, for around the same price, the Gigabyte GA-H81.Amp-UP has a 4 phase power, 8 pin power connection and heatsunk VRMs. Either of these alternatives also have great quality onbaord sound.
Edited by mdocod - 4/4/14 at 5:36pm
     
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post #32 of 61
CPU I3 4330 $139
MOBO ASUS H81M-K LGA $55
PSUEVga 430 watt $39
RAMTEAM Elite 2x4GB $59
CASE NZXT 210 $29 after mir
GPUMSI 7770 1gb $104.99
HD 120 gb samsung 840 evo $89

$514.99 after the $15 rebate on the case.

I have ran bf4 on a 1gb XFX 7770 at 1080p medium/high no AA settings with a fx6300 and it was very smooth. if medium is your goal then more GPU than this wont really be needed. The GTX 750 (non ti) should give .similar performance to this for just a few dollars more($30). However without personal experience with that card I am reluctant to suggest it for such a specific set of guidelines.

Oh and the SSD is worth the extra $40 over a standard Hardrive. I cannot assemble a rig of any kinda in 2014 without one thumb.gif
Edited by Wirerat - 4/4/14 at 7:20pm
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post #33 of 61
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Bump!
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post #34 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHDadditiv View Post

This be my favourite rig so far. I would purchase all those parts. But the best for the money is the Athlon rig so far. Keep trying people! biggrin.gif
If you like that rig, mine is better. $50 get's you a better case, faster hard drive, double the RAM... oh, and a full-ATX motherboard so i get much better expandability for the future.
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post #35 of 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTRLurself View Post

If you like that rig, mine is better. $50 get's you a better case, faster hard drive, double the RAM... oh, and a full-ATX motherboard so i get much better expandability for the future.
Case is subjective, I personally like the Source 210 better. Hard drive is actually slower, the Seagate is the second fastest drive next to the WD black (excluding enterprise HDD's and combo drives). Double the ram yes. I wouldn't trust a B85 motherboard ever. I would much rather have 1 slot on that H81 then 2 on the B85. Also the PSU that Postal picked is better then the one you picked and that GPU is faster. So not really, Postal's rig is better overall. You are welcome to try again though thumb.gif
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post #36 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHDadditiv View Post

Case is subjective, I personally like the Source 210 better. Hard drive is actually slower, the Seagate is the second fastest drive next to the WD black (excluding enterprise HDD's and combo drives). Double the ram yes. I wouldn't trust a B85 motherboard ever. I would much rather have 1 slot on that H81 then 2 on the B85. Also the PSU that Postal picked is better then the one you picked and that GPU is faster. So not really, Postal's rig is better overall. You are welcome to try again though thumb.gif

Actually the fastest hard drives are whatever ones are single-platter, the most popular ones being the WD Blue EZEX and the 1TB Barracuda. There isn't a significant speed difference between the series, the main draw of the black series is the 5-year warranty vs the standard 3.
post #37 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHDadditiv View Post

Case is subjective, I personally like the Source 210 better. Hard drive is actually slower, the Seagate is the second fastest drive next to the WD black (excluding enterprise HDD's and combo drives). Double the ram yes. I wouldn't trust a B85 motherboard ever. I would much rather have 1 slot on that H81 then 2 on the B85. Also the PSU that Postal picked is better then the one you picked and that GPU is faster. So not really, Postal's rig is better overall. You are welcome to try again though thumb.gif
--I used a WD black. The RE drives are their enterprise class drives meant for 24/7 heavy loads.
--That motherboard actually gets very good reviews, and the chipset issue has been fixed for nearly a year.
--The PSUs are actually about a wash. The CX500m get's solid reviews (it's "drawback" is average PFC at 20% load, everything else is above average), and I thought he was using the non-modular SeaSonic because of the price - the one he linked is $69, the non-modular is the $55 he quoted.
--The reason I say my case is better isn't personal preference, it's specs. Fits bigger fans, fits two GPUs with a full 120mm more space, side panel to show off yer e'peen (which is kind of necessary for a good gaming PC).
--For the GPU, sorry, was thinking of the 260X vs 750Ti comparison I was reading, not the 265. Still, the 750Ti is the cheapest card to run BF4 at medium without issues.

Knowing more what you like I'll be putting up a new submission in a bit.
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post #38 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Wait, you were worried about the Pentium not performing, but think the Athlon will? They are so unbelievably close in performance, that if you don't feel the G3220 would do it, then the Athlon would be in the same boat.

The exception is if you OC the snot out of it, which won't be happening with the factory cooler. You would need to throw another $30+ on for a decent air cooler to start seeing meaningful OCs on the Athlon, which puts you right back into the i5 territory. Oh, you would also need decent TIM, which would be another ~$12, further increasing the cost of the Athlon build.

I've clocked a richland to 5ghz on a $20 CPU cooler with the included TIM. We normally run it ~4.7ghz though as it's not quite enough cooling for both the CPU and iGPU of the APU, however, the 760K+HSF that can clock it to 4.6+ghz is NOT i5 price class, it's i3 price class. If you do the comparisons, you'll see that a 760K@4.5-5ghz is actually a reasonable alternative to the performance of the i3 in the same price class, and certainly matches or exceeds the G3220 in any almost workload, as it should, being slightly more expensive.

There are a bunch of $20-30 HSFs that will get richland to ~4.5+ghz, and a bunch more in the $30-50 range that will open up a shot for ~5ghz. (some of these things go BEYOND 5ghz, luck of the draw of course). We could even buy the AMD OEM 140W HSF for about $10-15 and it would offer cooling performance as good or better than many quieter $20-30 coolers.
Quote:
The other consideration is that Richland processors, like the 760K, really benefit from high memory clocks. Which, again, would cost more.

Whether we buy the Richland or the Pentium we shouldn't be buying the cheapest memory we can find regardless. It defeats one of the primary advantages of building a machine over buying a pre-built: quality control.

High clock speeds (improved bandwidth) is much more beneficial to APUs, which leverage system memory as VRAM. Memory performance on an Athlon-Richland is only going to effect Compute performance, and not by bery much. Further more, compute performance is actually effected by effective latency characteristics more than by increasing available bandwidth in my experience. Compute workloads simply don't saturate the available bandwidth in dual channel with only 2 PD modules, so effective latency becomes more important to improving compute performance than raw speeds/bandwidth. Higher clocks are not always the best way to achieve lower effective latency.

If we're buying a performance tune-able machine anyway, we are probably going to performance tune the memory with manually set speeds/timings anyway, in which case, we don't have to pay any premium for a kit because it has a high speed rating, we can pick from any cost effective kit (high speed or low latency or low voltage) with performance tune-able headroom for only a few dollars more than minimum-standard memory, and then performance tune it to give the best compute performance.

I paid $60 for the 2x4GB kit in my FX-6300 rig (1600-9-9-9-2T@1.5V rated, pretty basic), and $65 for the kit in our APU machine (2133-9-11-11-1T@1.6V rated, pretty nice stuff).

Great memory is not expensive. Price for great quality 2x4GB kits with performance tuning headroom start at ~$70 right now, which is only about $5-10 more than the cheapest junk you we can buy.
Edited by mdocod - 4/8/14 at 11:03am
     
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post #39 of 61
Versus your favorite athlon build: better cooling, able to fit a bigger GPU, just as good of wire management, better cooling, faster hard drive, better CPU (10% faster in terms of raw power, more in terms of gaming). Lost a lot of the expandability of my first submission but it'll get the job done.

Total without MIR: $543.25
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i5-3570k ASUS MAXIMUS IV GENE HD7970 Gen 1 Ripjaws Z 2x8GB 2133MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
1TB RE4 2x3TB WD Red LG 10x BD-R Corsair H80i w/push pull 
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Win 7 Ultimate 3x 1920x1080 LG IPS displays. Razer Mass Effect 3 Blackwidow Ultimate Cooler Master Silent Pro M850 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Silverstone TJ08B-E R.A.T. 7 An ergonomic one 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
i7 3770k Gigabyte Sniper M3 1155 mATX CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1600MHz 1TB WD RE4 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
2TB WD Red 2TB WD Red 4TB WD Red 4TB WD Red 
PowerCaseAudioOther
750W Seasonic Gold Fractal Node 804 5.1 Definitive Def Tech PERC 5i RAID card w/ BBU (LSI Firmware) 
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post #40 of 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTRLurself View Post

Versus your favorite athlon build: better cooling, able to fit a bigger GPU, just as good of wire management, better cooling, faster hard drive, better CPU (10% faster in terms of raw power, more in terms of gaming). Lost a lot of the expandability of my first submission but it'll get the job done.

Total without MIR: $543.25
$100 more, slower GPU. Though a bigger HDD and slightly faster CPU. I would still give it to the Athlon.


Ignoring the very Nvidia based games IE: Batman, Grid, Metro, and also ignoring the very AMD based games ie: Tomb Raider and Dirt the R7 265 is faster.
Black Jarvis V1.9
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Black Jarvis V1.9
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Mazdaspeed6
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