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post #42 of 215

Thank you, mcg75.

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post #43 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBestiaHumana View Post

I didn't say 290s couldn't be overclocked, but when reviewers compare a 1ghz card to another one running at 846mhz, it just makes you wonder.

Due to the way "boost" functions on both cards it's not that simple:

1. Nvidia's boost clock is additive, so in fact many 780s (especially of the B1 stepping) will boost to 1GHz+ completely stock during gaming. ~863MHz is the guaranteed base frequency and the 780 will ramp up as much as it can until it hits the default thermal limit of 82-84'C.
2. AMD's boost clock is subtractive, so in fact many 290s (especially reference) will run 10-30% (!) lower than 1GHz if the card exceeds 94'C at a given fan speed.

The AMD boost cut can be avoided if the reviewer sets the fan speed high enough to never exceed the temperature limit. It would be absurd for a reviewer to lock a 780 to 863MHz, but might be done for AMD-biased reviewers.

Comparisons must be taken in context of the methodology used.
Edited by friend'scatdied - 4/4/14 at 2:53pm
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post #44 of 215

My time is up. I must leave now or else I'll be late. I'll catch up in about 7-8 hours from now.

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post #45 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

That's incorrect.

Due to the way "boost" functions on both cards it's not that simple:

1. Nvidia's boost clock is additive, so in fact many 780s (especially of the B1 stepping) will run 1GHz+ completely stock. 846MHz is the guaranteed base frequency and the 780 will ramp up as much as it can until it hits the thermal limit of 82-84'C.
2. AMD's boost clock is subtractive, so in fact many 290s (especially reference) will run 10-30% (!) lower than 1GHz if the card exceeds 94'C at a given fan speed.

Comparisons must be taken in context of the methodology used.

the problem is a lot of reviewers like to disable the boost function on nvidia cards when reviewing them vs amd cards, essentially making them sub 900 mhz cards and then claim the amd card wins by a landslide, which in almost 0 situations ever would you lock down a card to sub 900mhz for a 780/780/titan. Nvidia favored sites (yes there are plenty of those too) do the same crap to AMD cards such as run it in quiet mode so its throttling super hard and running at 750 mhz so it doesnt explode while the nvidia card is a non reference cooled card sitting in an ice tank running stupid high clocks then claim amd sucks and nvidia is god. this is why i only trust my own reviewing and other people i know who know what theyre doing with a card. all about the paycheck for the reviewers that are sponsored.
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post #46 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBestiaHumana View Post

I didn't say 290s couldn't be overclocked, but when reviewers compare a 1ghz card to another one running at 846mhz, it just makes you wonder.

There are only a few websites I know of that locks the clocks on Nvidia cards to the lowest clock. The rest run them normal.

A 780 stock will basically run close to 1000 mhz out of the box provided temps are in check.

rdr09 stated that there is about a 100 mhz difference needed for the 780 to match a 290. He is correct.
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post #47 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by szeged View Post

the problem is a lot of reviewers like to disable the boost function on nvidia cards when reviewing them vs amd cards, essentially making them sub 900 mhz cards and then claim the amd card wins by a landslide, which in almost 0 situations ever would you lock down a card to sub 900mhz for a 780/780/titan. Nvidia favored sites (yes there are plenty of those too) do the same crap to AMD cards such as run it in quiet mode so its throttling super hard and running at 750 mhz so it doesnt explode while the nvidia card is a non reference cooled card sitting in an ice tank running stupid high clocks then claim amd sucks and nvidia is god. this is why i only trust my own reviewing and other people i know who know what theyre doing with a card. all about the paycheck for the reviewers that are sponsored.

In a no-holds-barred scenario I think we can reasonably agree these cards are comparable at their practical limits for the end-user, with the 290 being cheaper for the same relative performance but incrementally more power-hungry and potentially noisier.

I sure did love me my eVGA 780 Ti when I had it, but it's hard to argue with the value the 290 series provides. If eVGA existed for AMD video cards, it'd sure be a lot easier wouldn't it?
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post #48 of 215
we all know clock for clock the 290 is a bit stronger than a 780, the only problem is most air coolers cant keep up with the 290 core to keep the max clocks competing with a 780 at max clocks. My 780 lightning hits past 1400 on its air cooler, which is pretty darn good imo, my 780 classys also both did right past 1400. havent seen too many 290s past 1250 core on air. but then again they are stronger than 780s so 1250 is still damn good.


also on average the air coolers for the 290 that are also used on 780s run a bit louder because most manufacturers are lazy as hell and dont customize the cooler for the amd card because the 780 version came out first, so the heat dissipation is worse and the noise is louder to compensate a prime example of this is ASUS, their dcu2 is basically dog crap for the 290 but awesome for the 780, however sapphire did a bang up job with their cooler for the 290 because it was made specifically for it.
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post #49 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by szeged View Post

we all know clock for clock the 290 is a bit stronger than a 780, the only problem is most air coolers cant keep up with the 290 core to keep the max clocks competing with a 780 at max clocks. My 780 lightning hits past 1400 on its air cooler, which is pretty darn good imo, my 780 classys also both did right past 1400. havent seen too many 290s past 1250 core on air. but then again they are stronger than 780s so 1250 is still damn good.


also on average the air coolers for the 290 that are also used on 780s run a bit louder because most manufacturers are lazy as hell and dont customize the cooler for the amd card because the 780 version came out first, so the heat dissipation is worse and the noise is louder to compensate a prime example of this is ASUS, their dcu2 is basically dog crap for the 290 but awesome for the 780, however sapphire did a bang up job with their cooler for the 290 because it was made specifically for it.

Pretty much!
post #50 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by szeged View Post

also on average the air coolers for the 290 that are also used on 780s run a bit louder because most manufacturers are lazy as hell and dont customize the cooler for the amd card because the 780 version came out first, so the heat dissipation is worse and the noise is louder to compensate a prime example of this is ASUS, their dcu2 is basically dog crap for the 290 but awesome for the 780, however sapphire did a bang up job with their cooler for the 290 because it was made specifically for it.

It's not just the lack of custom-fitment of the cooler, but the Hawaii die is considerably smaller than the GK110's so heat cannot be transferred as efficiently even with equivalent cooling.
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