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[//build 2014/Youtube] Microsoft Cloud Gaming Prototype (you definitely wanna see this) - Page 4

post #31 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You actually think business is going to buy the millions of GPUs needed to run everyone's games for them? And upgrade them? You think games will stay $60, and not be subscription based for what level of detail you want? Even better, you don't think the 50ms ping to even a nearby datacenter would be a problem? Not to mention, as someone said in the youtube comment, this is much more likely to be done in multiplayer servers where they run the computation once for 60+ people, not per-person.

No... Talking, document handling, video streaming, other basics that are not latency dependant will, and have already started to, go cloud based. But your head is with those documents if you think games will be server side and actually run well enough to replace local.

Also, businesses have not "moved to the cloud", they make their own clouds. Which you can do too, all on your own. Windows 8 Pro comes with Hyper-V. Hyper-V is capable of passing GPU resources to the VM. RemoteFX (another Win8 feature) seriously upgrades RDP for minimal latency and even GPU frame encoding. You want to make a cloud, you can. Make one big badass rig, throw in a bunch of GPUs, pay for the needed licenes for the VMs, and have a bunch of <10w computers strapped to the back of monitors RDP in to the VMs.

Tada, you have a gaming cloud. Congradulations.

Seriously, I swear people don't even know what the term "cloud" means... Thinking businesses are moving to the cloud... That's a good joke.

You're talking about the present, i'm referring to the future. I didn't say how they were going to do it. Just because it isn't feasible now, doesn't mean we shouldn't look at how to implement it and improve technology.

Also, businesses are moving to the cloud. I work for probably the worlds largest cloud/data hosting company and we have thousands of clients running on cloud based systems providing marketing SaaS. They are all run, maintained and controlled by us. Sure, it's not real time graphics... but it's something that wouldn't have been imagined 20 years ago!

I'm not talking about now... I doubt what is shown in the video is possible today in a internet based multiplayer game... but it's a proof of concept smile.gif

You're wrong wink.gif

Edit: Also the bit about businesses running Windows 8 made me laugh smile.gif The real world is more complex than your game server!
Edited by 98uk - 4/4/14 at 10:40am
post #32 of 109
How is this a sustainable business model?

I buy a game, and they have to buy hardware to support me?

I still am really skeptical about all this, especially all these 'demos', it all feels rigged to me.
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post #33 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

How is this a sustainable business model?

I buy a game, and they have to buy hardware to support me?

I still am really skeptical about all this, especially all these 'demos', it all feels rigged to me.
MicrosoftDublinDataCentreAerialView.JPG

microsoft_sanantonio.jpg

They're ready.....
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post #34 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You actually think business is going to buy the millions of GPUs needed to run everyone's games for them? And upgrade them? You think games will stay $60, and not be subscription based for what level of detail you want? Even better, you don't think the 50ms ping to even a nearby datacenter would be a problem? Not to mention, as someone said in the youtube comment, this is much more likely to be done in multiplayer servers where they run the computation once for 60+ people, not per-person.

No... Talking, document handling, video streaming, other basics that are not latency dependant will, and have already started to, go cloud based. But your head is with those documents if you think games will be server side and actually run well enough to replace local.

Also, businesses have not "moved to the cloud", they make their own clouds. Which you can do too, all on your own. Windows 8 Pro comes with Hyper-V. Hyper-V is capable of passing GPU resources to the VM. RemoteFX (another Win8 feature) seriously upgrades RDP for minimal latency and even GPU frame encoding. You want to make a cloud, you can. Make one big badass rig, throw in a bunch of GPUs, pay for the needed licenes for the VMs, and have a bunch of <10w computers strapped to the back of monitors RDP in to the VMs.

Tada, you have a gaming cloud. Congradulations.

Seriously, I swear people don't even know what the term "cloud" means... Thinking businesses are moving to the cloud... That's a good joke.

First of all they're not talking about running the entire game, just some of the calculations so you'll still need your local GPU. Secondly, it is absolutely true that businesses are moving to the cloud (Netflix for example, uses Amazon servers for all of their services). Although it is possible for someone with computer knowledge to make their own clouds, it is not cost effective. The costs of maintenance and electricity will be much higher for a small firm than for someone like Microsoft, Amazon or Google who would specifically set up their cloud servers in an area of the country with cheaper hydro costs and have economies of scale.
post #35 of 109
"Whoops dont move the mouse john!"

YOU HAD ONE JOB!
post #36 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

How is this a sustainable business model?

I buy a game, and they have to buy hardware to support me?

I still am really skeptical about all this, especially all these 'demos', it all feels rigged to me.

It just leaves me thinking the same thing I thought when the new Sim City game first launched.

"What will happen when the game is no longer turning a profit? Will they shut down the servers?"

Though in that case we ended up with an offline mode, but that was not the original plan...plus the game didn't really run much on the cloud servers anyway. If a game was made that some how managed to run a fair amount of physics on a cloud server...well, when the plug got pulled it would be game over; at least for a lot of the eye candy physics. I think it would be a rare thing for any developers to put work into making an offline mode for a game that isn't selling any more as well.

I just don't think cloud servers are a good idea when it comes to running software for personal use. Even if there is actual benefits to doing so. Though I think it might catch on if given the chance if for no other reason than as a form of "non-intrusive" DRM.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 4/4/14 at 10:45am
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post #37 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

How is this a sustainable business model?

I buy a game, and they have to buy hardware to support me?

I still am really skeptical about all this, especially all these 'demos', it all feels rigged to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

It just leaves me thinking the same thing I thought when the new Sim City game first launched.

"What will happen when the game is no longer turning a profit? Will they shut down the servers?"

Though in that case we ended up with an offline mode, but that was not the original plan...plus the game didn't really run much on the cloud servers anyway. If a game was made that some how managed to run a fair amount of physics on a cloud server...well, when the plug got pulled it would be game over; at least for a lot of the eye candy physics. I think it would be a rare thing for any developers to put work into making an offline mode for a game that isn't selling any more as well.

I just don't think cloud servers are a good idea when it comes to running software for personal use. Even if there is actual benefits to doing so. Though I think it might catch on if given the chance if for no other reason than as a form of "non-intrusive" DRM.

I'm watching this myself and thinking "Really?" You mean to tell me a high-end system, pointing toward CPU power here, latest I5 or i7 can't handle this? Has it been written to utilize the cores it has at it's disposal? the same goes for the 8350 really.
Maybe it is true, but can't GPUs also be used for Physics calcuations? Nvidia's Physx and also apparently AMD benefits from Havok if Sony's presentation is anything to go by, I think that's what they were implying.

I think this would be handy for low end systems or the Xbox One or the PS4 with their Jaguar cores but who knows?

But I do understand and find this believable, I dont see graphics processing be a reality on Cloud processing this moment in time if you wish to do it in real-time, buy Physics and A.I? that makes sense to me.

With the recent shutdown and scheduled shutdown of servers for various games and networking services, both Nintendo and Sony I can't help but feel that this is also forcing dependency on their services, and Microsoft did try release the Xbox One with crazy DRM, this could be perceived as another way of enforcing it.
post #38 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicClocker View Post


I'm watching this myself and thinking "Really?" You mean to tell me a high-end system, pointing toward CPU power here, latest I5 or i7 can't handle this? Has it been written to utilize the cores it has at it's disposal? the same goes for the 8350 really.
Maybe it is true, but can't GPUs also be used for Physics calcuations? Nvidia's Physx and also apparently AMD benefits from Havok if Sony's presentation is anything to go by, I think that's what they were implying.

I think this would be handy for low end systems or the Xbox One or the PS4 with their Jaguar cores but who knows?

But I do understand and find this believable, I dont see graphics processing be a reality on Cloud processing this moment in time if you wish to do it in real-time, buy Physics and A.I? that makes sense to me.

With the recent shutdown and scheduled shutdown of servers for various games and networking services, both Nintendo and Sony I can't help but feel that this is also forcing dependency on their services, and Microsoft did try release the Xbox One with crazy DRM, this could be perceived as another way of enforcing it.

Resources are finite. Where you can offload processing somewhere else, you free up space for another task.

You can do more, by doing less! I'm interested to see it implemented realistically.
post #39 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicClocker View Post


I'm watching this myself and thinking "Really?" You mean to tell me a high-end system, pointing toward CPU power here, latest I5 or i7 can't handle this? Has it been written to utilize the cores it has at it's disposal? the same goes for the 8350 really.
Maybe it is true, but can't GPUs also be used for Physics calcuations? Nvidia's Physx and also apparently AMD benefits from Havok if Sony's presentation is anything to go by, I think that's what they were implying.

I think this would be handy for low end systems or the Xbox One or the PS4 with their Jaguar cores but who knows?

But I do understand and find this believable, I dont see graphics processing be a reality on Cloud processing this moment in time if you wish to do it in real-time, buy Physics and A.I? that makes sense to me.

With the recent shutdown and scheduled shutdown of servers for various games and networking services, both Nintendo and Sony I can't help but feel that this is also forcing dependency on their services, and Microsoft did try release the Xbox One with crazy DRM, this could be perceived as another way of enforcing it.

Resources are finite. Where you can offload processing somewhere else, you free up space for another task.

You can do more, by doing less! I'm interested to see it implemented realistically.

Indeed...Resources are finite. Do you really think that a developer or a publisher is going to keep these servers running indefinitely? I'd rather they learn to make better use of the local resources that are very seldom ever fully utilized than off load something to some where else and make the game dependent on an Internet connection and a server to exist to get the full enjoyment from the game...or even to enjoy the game at all.
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post #40 of 109
Cloud computing is really cool for certain uses: processing insane amounts of data, rendering complicated things (i.e. CGI-movies), etc. The thing is, these types of uses don't need to operate at very low latency. For example, if you're processing data, you can probably live with 100, 200 or even 500ms delay. If you're Pixar and rendering a movie, then you really don't care what your latency is.

However, in a game, the physics is going to need to be done quickly - VERY quickly. The problem is, almost no one has the bandwidth or network stability to do this. Maybe one day when "basic cable" is equal to Google Fiber; but right now, when getting a 50/50mbps connection is considered "fast", it's just not going to happen.
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