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[//build 2014/Youtube] Microsoft Cloud Gaming Prototype (you definitely wanna see this) - Page 7

post #61 of 109
Wouldn't you be able to basically eliminate any perceived lag differences between people with different connection speeds, distance from server, etc? Couldn't they just set everything to be streamed to everyone according to the slowest persons connection so it ends up at you, the user, at the same time as everyone else? Seems very possible, and possibly one of the only real benefits to technology like this.
 
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post #62 of 109
They totally blew the demo by shooting twice to a piece of debris and not interacting with both shots a single bit.
post #63 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

"The cloud" isn't some magical thing that suddenly makes everything run faster and enables every xbox user to use a supercomputer.

Everything still has to be calculated / rendered on some hardware somewhere. And that's the real issue with demos like this. What happens when you release a game that uses tech like this and say 100K people want to play it at the same time on launch?

Say you designed the cloud implementation to offer 15x the computational power of high end PCs. You're going to have to offer ~100 TFLOPs of compute power per user. So in the end if you want to accommodate all the 100K users wanting to play you need a 10 000 000 TFLOPs render farm ...

And that's for one relatively big title on launch...

This is one of my main issues with this stuff.

MS claimed that the cloud could do something like 3x the performance for every X1 owner...HOW??? When you have millions of X1 gamers playing games at the same time you'd have to have a server farm the size of Wisconsin to be able to do so. How, exactly, does MS expect to provide 3x the X1 power for EVERY user? That just doesn't make sense computational wise, money wise, etc.

I just don't buy it. I'd love to be proven wrong...but even if, say, the X1 matches the PS4's performance via cloud...that's 384 GPU cores MORE per X1 user. That's millions of R7 250's...one per person. How would that be possible? How is that financially feasible?

Sigh...MS has done absolutely nothing to prove anyone wrong (or right for that matter).
post #64 of 109
I wanna try that demo on my rig and see if it will lag like that just to see if they speak fact of putrid lies.
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post #65 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecchi-BANZAII!!! View Post

I wanna try that demo on my rig and see if it will lag like that just to see if they speak fact of putrid lies.

Something tells me you most likely already know the answer...
post #66 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

"The cloud" isn't some magical thing that suddenly makes everything run faster and enables every xbox user to use a supercomputer.

Everything still has to be calculated / rendered on some hardware somewhere. And that's the real issue with demos like this. What happens when you release a game that uses tech like this and say 100K people want to play it at the same time on launch?

Say you designed the cloud implementation to offer 15x the computational power of high end PCs. You're going to have to offer ~100 TFLOPs of compute power per user. So in the end if you want to accommodate all the 100K users wanting to play you need a 10 000 000 TFLOPs render farm ...

And that's for one relatively big title on launch...

Pretty much. This entire demonstration is a pipe-dream. The costs associated with such a hardware procurement, getting them into production, and maintaining such levels for prolonged periods of time is so beyond cost-prohibitive it is borderline madness. I can potentially see a service like this that produces limited non-interactive improvements in backdrops and other random clutter. However, most companies cut online services with insignificant/minor running costs at the drop of a hat by comparison -- so do not see this going much of anywhere.
    
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post #67 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

I don't see a single thing here that changes my mind on "cloud computing".

What were the system specs used here? What was the connection speed and latency? What were they using server side? Can they provide that for millions of users at the same time? How will people with slow or crappy internet (e.g. most people)? Etc etc etc...

None of this has been answered nor will it be answered.

This was no different then Nvidia showing off some Physx demo. "Oh look! 500,000 particles Physx!"...yeah...but they fail to mention it's running on quad Titans at 30FPS with literally nothing else going on other than the Physx effects.

It's the exact same thing here.

I don't see how system specs matter when the load is shunted to a server.

Nor does it need to be answered at this time. It's a tech showcase. A proof-of-concept. Proof that it does work.

This is incredibly different than NVidia's other tech demos. Regardless of whether it was a quad-titan system(which I seriously doubt given the frame rates we were seeing when idling) was brought to its knees in the first portion of the tech demo we can see that serverside physics calculations completely free it of that strain. These are usually done to extreme levels. You just will not see this level of destruction or load in console games simply because of the limitations you have listed.

And it does work. We both just saw it. I don't understand what you have against them showcasing something which only nets you better performance other than because it is Microsoft and tied to the XBox.
post #68 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caples View Post

I don't see how system specs matter when the load is shunted to a server.

Nor does it need to be answered at this time. It's a tech showcase. A proof-of-concept. Proof that it does work.

This is incredibly different than NVidia's other tech demos. Regardless of whether it was a quad-titan system(which I seriously doubt given the frame rates we were seeing when idling) was brought to its knees in the first portion of the tech demo we can see that serverside physics calculations completely free it of that strain. These are usually done to extreme levels. You just will not see this level of destruction or load in console games simply because of the limitations you have listed.

And it does work. We both just saw it. I don't understand what you have against them showcasing something which only nets you better performance other than because it is Microsoft and tied to the XBox.

Yes...we ALL know server side computations work. No one here I don't think has ever said they don't.

All this demonstration did was to show that "cloud computing" works. Woohoo...

What it doesn't show is everything I pointed out in my last post.

I'm sorry, but I really just don't see the point of what you just said.
post #69 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

Yes...we ALL know server side computations work. No one here I don't think has ever said they don't.

All this demonstration did was to show that "cloud computing" works. Woohoo...

What it doesn't show is everything I pointed out in my last post.

I'm sorry, but I really just don't see the point of what you just said.

But you're straight up wrong.

If they're running this on a handful of "high-end" machines, which most people consider to be an i5 and something like a 290 or a 780, then should not 32 consoles be able to spread out the computations among themselves to get at least similar results?

Neither of us have intricate knowledge of the subject so I suggest you stop making a fool of yourself by trying to blanket dump on this. I'm simply maintaining my optimism that this will turn out to be a good thing for console gamers.
post #70 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caples View Post

But you're straight up wrong.

If they're running this on a handful of "high-end" machines, which most people consider to be an i5 and something like a 290 or a 780, then should not 32 consoles be able to spread out the computations among themselves to get at least similar results?

Neither of us have intricate knowledge of the subject so I suggest you stop making a fool of yourself by trying to blanket dump on this. I'm simply maintaining my optimism that this will turn out to be a good thing for console gamers.

Riiiiiiight...because I'm the only one that's saying this. Not like other far more knowledgeable people aren't saying the same thing.

Either way it goes I still fail to see how my point is incorrect at all.

A high-end PC couldn't handle it (the i5 and 290/780 as you say). So there for we're supposed to believe that on the opposite end of your internet connection that there will be PC's that are FAR more powerful than their i5/290/780 system for every user that needs it? Do you not see my point?

How do you explain how MS or anyone else for that matter is going to be able to provide 2-10x the computational power of an already, supposedly, high-end PC without it causing MS to go bankrupt? MS themselves have said that cloud computing with TRIPLE the power of the X1...that would be AT LEAST two ADDITIONAL X1's per user...that would be 10's of MILLIONS of X1 hardware comparable PC's on the server side.

As I've said, is "cloud computing" possible? Sure...but not on the level they showed in this little demonstration. At least not now or anywhere in the near future. The hardware isn't there, the internet speed and reliability isn't there, the financial backing isn't there.

Period. Call me a "fool" all you want but I don't see where I'm incorrect.
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