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[Hardware.fr] AMD FreeSync ': Proposal adopted by VESA - Page 14

post #131 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

AMD hasn't pushed anything. They're "hoping" to "encourage" (their words, not mine) display manufacturers to implement it.

They deserve no credit whatsoever.

"Even the largest avalanche is triggered by small things."

-Vernor Vinge
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post #132 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

[*] The only displays that would support FreeSync will be the displays that use the optional specs in the DP 1.2a standard AND have the ASIC installed.
Finally someone gets it.

And that will cost a premium. It requires research and it adds production costs for the display manufacturers to implement.
Edited by Hasty - 4/6/14 at 11:39am
post #133 of 422
Is freesync on paper as good on latency as gsync? Gsync is tested to have approximately zero latency compared to no sync. Will AMDsync be the same?

(~zero latency difference provided fps is or is capped below monitor refresh by at least a few hz, but that's approximately no trouble)
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post #134 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasty View Post

Finally someone gets it.

And that will cost a premium. It requires research and it adds production costs for the display manufacturers to implement.

I may not know much... but I don't think the cost will be very much for the manufacturers to implement as I believe it would just be a firmware update; as far as the ASIC, they are already available AFAIK in the form of SST or MST hubs: http://www.club-3d.com/index.php/products/reader.en/product/mst-hub-1-3.html.... cost around $100.

So you need a 1.2a monitor with the free sync amendment enabled and then that $100 hub. How much that amendment cost is per monitor will probably dictate free syncs adoption and success. Oh and also a graphics card with 1.2a DP... not sure if that can be updated by the user either...
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post #135 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Is freesync on paper as good on latency as gsync? Gsync is tested to have approximately zero latency compared to no sync. Will AMDsync be the same?

(~zero latency difference provided fps is or is capped below monitor refresh by at least a few hz, but that's approximately nothing)
Freesync is a concept. The concept of letting display manufacturers develop the electronics to drive variable refresh rate capable displays.
AMD will provide the driver tweaks on their graphical solution to be able to take advantage of that functionality.

So that question can't be answered as the displays manufacturers haven't produced the electronics yet.
Like I said in a previous post, Freesync is a concept, not a product. Comparing Freesync and G-sync is like comparing apples to oranges.
post #136 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Is freesync on paper as good on latency as gsync? Gsync is tested to have approximately zero latency compared to no sync. Will AMDsync be the same?

(~zero latency difference provided fps is or is capped below monitor refresh by at least a few hz, but that's approximately no trouble)

Actually, on Paper G-Sync is faster/better.

The G-Sync ASIC isn't just a basic ASIC hanging out and handling timings, it is actually pretty well built. It has 768MB of RAM on itself, its own On Screen Display (OSD), and while I can't find it I believe a small processor to handle everything.

FreeSync on the other hand.....doesn't have any of those as of yet. Right now FreeSync is just relying on the GPU to handle the entire job, and an ASIC for timing on the display. The closest thing to FreeSync right now are certain laptop displays that use eDP connections, and support VRR, where everything is GPU dependent.

So, it is a bit difficult to directly compare the two; but Nvidia has made efforts to tweak G-Sync to minimize latency and be better for the gamer.
    
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post #137 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I think I am running out of breath repeating myself, and this may be my last post here because it doesn't seem to be doing any good, so here it goes..............

What you just said is not only wrong, but completely flawed and speculative.

It (Freesync) requiring the purchase of anything is the point, it isn't "Free" at that point; and AMD has been pushing "FreeSync" as a cost effective alternative to G-Sync, even though they are flat lying about it. G-Sync right now is available to a number of manufacturers, and there is actually a queue for others to wait while they ramp up production of the ASIC. Even Overlord Computers, a tiny little display company in Sacramento, is waiting on a G-Sync module for the very display I am sitting in front of. So, limited to certain manufacturers? Hardly!!!

Further, what qualifies you to make the statement is is only available at an "extreme price"? The DIY kit for it was only $150, a fraction of what a basic gaming rig costs, and I can almost guarantee that display manufacturers don't pay anything near that per ASIC they install. Cost will also come down as the technology is adopted, it is new, it costs more now than it will in the future, that is basic knowledge. To cut off any argument you might have and think it wise to point at displays like the Asus ROG Swift with its $800 price tag as an "extreme price" example I will remind you of this, you aren't paying for just G-sync in that display. The price tag is justified by the insane specs of the display itself, the same thing goes for its smaller $400 brother that was mentioned.

Finally, the big one here.....

NOT EVERY MONITOR WILL SUPPORT FREESYNC! For the love of god people, read!! Actually do research on the topic!

  • FreeSync still requires an ASIC, just like G-Sync! The G-Sync module is an ASIC.
  • FreeSync is an OPTION within the DP 1.2a standard, one of MANY options that can be used - many options aren't. It isn't a mandatory feature of DP 1.2a.
  • The only displays that would support FreeSync will be the displays that use the optional specs in the DP 1.2a standard AND have the ASIC installed.
  • You will have to have an AMD or Nvidia card that supports the feature as well - either through buying a new card or possibly a new driver set or BIOS.


Now, let us look at this from a realistic point, and I have said this several times already. If a very very very small portion of your customer base (display buyers) will benefit from VRR why would you spend the money as a company to put the ASIC in all your displays? The answer, you don't! "FreeSync" capable displays will be sold as "Gamer" displays and at a mark-up, it is that simple. VRR in the desktop world only benefits the gamer, as we are the only ones that are dealing with frame rate fluctuation.

FreeSync isn't some magical thing that just magically happens for free and without cost. This news doesn't mean it is happening, at all.

People, I implore you to simply do basic research on what this takes. Do basic research on how it is already being used in a very select number of situations in the mobile world. Educate yourselves on this topic. I see many of you holding your breath for the Savior AMD to come and free you from the Evil Nvidia and their devilish G-Sync, and you are only setting yourselves up for a HUGE disappointment.

G-Sync and FreeSync are trying to accomplish the same thing, and both are actually approaching it very similarly, they are much closer to each other than many of you think. They also require more or less the same types of hardware to work. They both require an ASIC and they both require a GPU compatible with the specification; they both cost money for hardware! Nvidia is just being upfront with you on those costs and telling you exactly what it takes. AMD, on the other hand, is trying to hide behind catch phrases and buzzwords.

So, in a nutshell, Linux x86 is not free, as it requires a x86 ASIC, a CPU, to run on.
Yes, you are talking in cycles and you are misquoting others.

The "Free", is in "no licencing fees required free". It doesn't run on thin air.
But I guess that wouldn't be free with your logic either - requires air.

nVidia does well charging as much as they want for their exclusive atm tech.
They are not evil, they are a for-profit corp, like AMD.

As far as the "ASIC requirement" goes, it is completely different having an extra feature with no costly licensing requirements and designed to be open to all manufactures added to the ASICs that the monitor REQUIRES ANYWAYS TO DRIVE THE PANEL, than adding a second (or more) specialized ASIC of proprietary nature that work exclusively with one manufacturer's GPUs.

It is like CUDA vs. OpenCL. CUDA is great, CUDA is very well documented and already had a big established dev and user base, but it not being an open-for-all language, has its issues.
Thus going the extra mile to develop OpenCL further, is a good thing for all, even if it is more painful and requires some backtracking on existing apps.

nVidia does well charging as much as they want for their exclusive tech.
They are not evil, they are a for-profit corp, like AMD.

So yes, for future tech, it being free to licence or not, you require future hardware that "aknowlegdes" that tech / protocol.
Its the same with DX12, and all DX before it! WoW...much information! Great News!

nVidia does well charging as much as they want for their new hardware that will support the extra features.
They are not evil, they are a for-profit corp, like AMD.
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post #138 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

I may not know much... but I don't think the cost will be very much for the manufacturers to implement as I believe it would just be a firmware update; as far as the ASIC, they are already available AFAIK in the form of SST or MST hubs: http://www.club-3d.com/index.php/products/reader.en/product/mst-hub-1-3.html.... cost around $100.

So you need a 1.2a monitor with the free sync amendment enabled and then that $100 hub. How much that amendment cost is per monitor will probably dictate free syncs adoption and success. Oh and also a graphics card with 1.2a DP... not sure if that can be updated by the user either...
No you don't get it, the display manufacturers will have to research and develop their own ASIC solution. And that's what will cost a premium.
Quote:
The non-recurring engineering (NRE) cost of an ASIC can run into the millions of dollars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-specific_integrated_circuit
post #139 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasty View Post

No you don't get it, the display manufacturers will have to research and develop their own ASIC solution. And that's what will cost a premium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-specific_integrated_circuit

lol like I said, I may not know much.

I just figured that the 1.2a optional amendment was purely to allow the refresh rate of the monitor to be overridden. Then the MST hub could be used to control the timing.
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post #140 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

lol like I said, I may not know much.
I don't either. I'm hoping someone from the display industry could post in this thread to give more insight into variable refresh rate implementation.
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