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post #171 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

So essentially we are waiting for firmware updates for dp 1.2 on monitors and sea island cards, and a driver implementation?
Yes.

The driver implementation is probably only going to be for Frame Pacing when the GPU goes faster than the maximum refresh rate.
For 60 Hz Monitors:
Frame rates below 60 FPS will be followed by a 0. Which says to the frame pacing part of the driver not to be active.
Frame rates above 60 FPS will be followed by a 1. Which says to the frame pacing part of the driver to be active.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

Also do you believe there be a performance hit/latency increase
I do not think AMD's or Nvidia's solution would impact performance or increase latency. Instead, it would decrease the impact/hit since users aren't running vertical synchronization.
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post #172 of 422
If you want low latency, you want the monitor to be waiting on the GPU, and the GPU/driver to be waiting on the CPU/game engine. If your monitor is the bottleneck at 60hz with v-sync, g-sync, or freesync, you add latency between the GPU and monitor, as well as between the CPU and GPU. For example:

CPU takes 7 ms to calculate frame then waits 9.6ms before the GPU is ready to start working on that frame.

GPU takes 10ms to render frame, then waits with a finished frame 6.6ms before starting on the next frame.

Monitor takes 16.6ms to finish scanning out the frame.

Frame interval = 16.6ms; Latency = 49.8ms


With G-sync or freesync, if you cap your framerate in game to say 55fps in software, you can significantly reduce the latency:

CPU waits 11.1ms then takes 7ms to calculate frame, including any user/network input that happened in that 11ms.

GPU takes 10ms to render frame, immediately sends it to monitor then waits for 8.1ms for the CPU to finish the next frame.

Monitor scans the new frame as soon as it receives it, taking 16.6ms then waits on the GPU 1.5ms to send the next frame.

Frame interval = 18.1ms, Latency= 33.6ms


GPU or driver based frame pacing in this scenario could potentially get rid of the 6.6ms between the GPU and display, but it can't do anything about the CPU waiting on the GPU for 9.6ms. That's why you need to cap framerate in game to somewhere below your maximum framerate and refresh rate.
Edited by TranquilTempest - 4/7/14 at 2:13am
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post #173 of 422
I asked some weeks ago in AMD forums
Quote:
Do any of you know if the current AMD drivers support already FreeSync and if they do how can I enable/disable it? Or was the demo done on some internal driver version which is not part of the public driver yet?
and after not getting any replies for about half a week filed it as support ticket with that question. The answer I got was
Quote:
None of the drivers can support FreeSync for now, and sorry, we really don’t have the information for when it will be available to support, so can’t give you a certain answer, thanks a lot for your concern.

I wanted to try it if it's already available for download. I have three displays attached to my PC through eDP interface (ipad screens) even though they use eDP 1.1a but would have been still interesting to see if/what/etc happens.
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post #174 of 422
It's a bit annoying knowing this gsync/amdsync technology would be practically free if it started being supported 4 years ago isn't it?

By the way, I suspect the fears on whether AMD's solution is high latency shouldn't be big since, after all, if it were high latency why would it replace vsync at all? Though it could be mildly laggy and we should see.

By the way in case anyone doesn't know don't listen to the nonsense that gsync is high latency on fps=hz of the monitor. The fact is it has practically zero extra lag only a couple of fps below hz. In order to achieve that you can cap fps manually if they don't make the system do it automatically, I suspect they might.
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post #175 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

It's a bit annoying knowing this gsync/amdsync technology would be practically free if it started being supported 4 years ago isn't it?

You could say that about every single computer technology ever, though...
post #176 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

By the way in case anyone doesn't know don't listen to the nonsense that gsync is high latency on fps=hz of the monitor.
I don't understand why you call that nonsense. It's a behavior that exists and has been reproduced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasty View Post

http://www.infinite.cz/blog/herni-monitory-input-lag-gsync

From his tests:

- V-sync 144Hz => 39ms

- G-sync 144Hz => 39ms

Confirmed by Blur Busters:
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=389#p3611

And Marks's own test shows the behavior as well:


At first, it was pretty clear that G-SYNC had significantly more input lag than VSYNC OFF. It was observed that VSYNC OFF at 300fps versus 143fps had fairly insignificant differences in input lag (22ms/26ms at 300fps, versus 24ms/26ms at 143fps). When I began testing G-SYNC, it immediately became apparent that input lag suddenly spiked (40ms/39ms for 300fps cap, 38ms/35ms for 143fps cap). During fps_max=300, G-SYNC ran at only 144 frames per second, since that is the frame rate limit. The behavior felt like VSYNC ON suddenly got turned on.
- Mark Rejhon



Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

The fact is it has practically zero extra lag only a couple of fps below hz. In order to achieve that you can cap fps manually if they don't make the system do it automatically, I suspect they might.
Maybe. Or maybe they will try to eliminate the polling behavior that is likely causing the issue.



Why is there less lag in CS:GO at 120fps than 143fps for G-SYNC?

We currently suspect that fps_max 143 is frequently colliding near the G-SYNC frame rate cap, possibly having something to do with NVIDIA’s technique in polling the monitor whether the monitor is ready for the next refresh. I did hear they are working on eliminating polling behavior, so that eventually G-SYNC frames can begin delivering immediately upon monitor readiness, even if it means simply waiting a fraction of a millisecond in situations where the monitor is nearly finished with its previous refresh.
- Mark Rejhon
post #177 of 422
I like how you didn't read the next sentences and you had to write a whole essay to say something I agree with.

Yes, it is vsync-latency on fps = frequency of monitor, but that's eliminated if you only cap fps lower than hz.

Capping FPS to slightly below 144hz will be no problem if you get virtually no latency and good syncing.
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post #178 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

I like how you didn't read the next sentences and you had to write a whole essay to say something I agree with.

Yes, it is vsync-latency on fps = frequency of monitor, but that's eliminated if you only cap fps lower than hz.

Capping FPS to slightly below 144hz will be no problem if you get virtually no latency and good syncing.
Well you make it sounds like it's an evidence and I don't understand why.

I mean:
- Do you assume that the G-sync users will be aware of the need of an fps cap? For me it seems unlikely.
And will they know how to setup the fps cap. And will it always work as intended? (Last time I used an fps cap was with the EVGA Precision X utility on Skyrim and it produced massive freezes every few seconds.)

- How are you supposed to find the exact fps cap you have to apply without having an input lag test setup? Even Mark from Blur busters didn't had the patience to find the sweet spot. And said it must be somewhere in between 120 and 143 and probably closer from 143 than from 120.

Sorry but I don't understand your reaction.
post #179 of 422
I don't get the drama. Relax. As I had said, I envisioned a pop up window with a "don't show again" with "Warning: Capping FPS below monitor refresh will eliminate latency on G-SYNC mode".

If some games fail to do it properly, well, that's an issue.

Perhaps they could do it hardware-side or driver-side.
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post #180 of 422

I can't see it being difficult to cap fps in the driver if G-Sync is active. The sweet spot is usually 2-3fps under the monitors refresh rate. It can't be difficult to do an FCAT test and measure the usual "width" of the resultant graph, and then cap the relevant fps below the monitor's max refresh rate.

 

On a side note, ENB hooks into Skyrim and caps framerate perfectly.

 

 

A solution in which the GPU just sends out frames when it wants (subject to various constraints) and the monitor refreshes the LCD when a frame arrives seems simple enough in theory, and moving the logic onto the GPU also makes sense. All it needs to know is the maximum refresh rate.

 

I can envisage (and would very much like) a system much like today where monitors are capable of a few more fps than stated, so we buy a 120Hz monitor capable of 125Hz (and very occasionally hitting this due to frame time variance) and pro users can "overclock" their monitor if they feel they can squeeze a few more frames out without hitting the 125Hz limit.

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