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post #201 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasty View Post

This one

You mean the one they did for the demo? Yeah, that wasn't actually free-sync. That was a static refresh rate that they could change by a setting, not variable refresh.
post #202 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasty View Post

You only got an answer from Service Request, that's not pretty reliable.

Here is what AMD stated at CES according to Anand Lal Shimpi from AnandTech:

"In the case of the Toshiba Satellite Click, the panel already supports variable VBLANK. AMD’s display engines have supported variable VBLANK for a couple of generations, and that extends all the way down to APUs. The Satellite Click in question uses AMD’s low cost Kabini APU, which already has the requisite hardware to support variable VBLANK and thus variable display refresh rates (Kaveri as well as AMD's latest GPUs should support it as well). AMD simply needed driver support for controlling VBLANK timing, which is present in the latest Catalyst drivers. AMD hasn’t yet exposed any of the controls to end users, but all of the pieces in this demo are ready and already available."

source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014

Ahh good to know. Then I just have to hope they will be exposing it rather sooner than later. As I would quite like to see what happens if I enable it on eDP 1.1a displays running off a discrete AMD GPU. Assuming they do not do something nasty like hiding the option in drivers unless some specific hardware in their "white list" is present and detected. Even so it would be presumably a matter of time before a driver hack emerges for enabling it for displays not in official support list should they go that way. If nothing else then probably in Toadys custom resolution utility.
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post #203 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

You mean the one they did for the demo? Yeah, that wasn't actually free-sync. That was a static refresh rate that they could change by a setting, not variable refresh.
.

Which is a manner how it will work. Graphic card will tell to the display when to refresh. For such behavior the display has to support not only 60Hz, but every "static" refresh rate from 1Hz to X Hz, depending on maximum refresh rate. On driver-side gpu will be altering refresh rate real-time.
post #204 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offler View Post

.

Which is a manner how it will work. Graphic card will tell to the display when to refresh. For such behavior the display has to support not only 60Hz, but every "static" refresh rate from 1Hz to X Hz, depending on maximum refresh rate. On driver-side gpu will be altering refresh rate real-time.

Not even remotely close.

Being able to change from 60 Hz static refresh rate to 50 Hz static refresh rate is not the same thing as changing frame time on a frame-by-frame basis.

The GPU drivers may well be able to handle it. Whether the display can handle it is another matter entirely, and that has not been demonstrated for FreeSync yet. As stated by AMD, repeatedly and very clearly, they are "encouraging" the display manufacturers to develop the necessary hardware. Whether they will, or can, is another matter entirely and one of significant R&D costs that AMD is pretending don't exist.
post #205 of 422
But that was the point. The demo was showing how the tech used in eDP could be used in freesync. This ability to alter vblank intervals is the basis behind freesync. So technically each frame is a static image. By allowing each frame to be designated as such you can see the premise of variable frame rate and how it applies to freesync and how the demo was representative of it.
post #206 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

But that was the point. The demo was showing how the tech used in eDP could be used in freesync. This ability to alter vblank intervals is the basis behind freesync. So technically each frame is a static image. By allowing each frame to be designated as such you can see the premise of variable frame rate and how it applies to freesync and how the demo was representative of it.

But it didn't, actually, demonstrate variable refresh. It demonstrated fixed refresh that could be set at different values. That's a key distinction, one glossed over by most people commenting on it.
post #207 of 422
And where did the fixed refresh rate get commanded from. You're trying too hard. Every idea has a premise, that demo was the idea. It wasn't 50fps shown on a 60hz monitor, it was a 60hz monitor that had its vblank interval altered to display at 50hz. That is the premise now just make that single change happen at a frequency up to the monitors refresh rate.
post #208 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

And where did the fixed refresh rate get commanded from. You're trying too hard. Every idea has a premise, that demo was the idea. It wasn't 50fps shown on a 60hz monitor, it was a 60hz monitor that had its vblank interval altered to display at 50hz. That is the premise now just make that single change happen at a frequency up to the monitors refresh rate.

From a setting that may or may not be able to alter vblank at the speeds and at the accuracy required to make variable refresh work.

Right now, on the desktop display I'm using, I can change the monitor to go at 50 Hz. That's not using the vblank interval, granted, but being able to set the vblank interval to a different value is not the same thing as being able to set the vblank interval to a different value frame-by-frame.

Variable refresh was not demonstrated during AMD's demo - this is a fact. Changing the refresh rate to 50 Hz using vblank was. There is a critical distinction between the two, and why reports by people saying that FreeSync exists and is working are flatly incorrect.
post #209 of 422
Display drivers (most people are using "default windows driver") offer fixed refresh rates simply because nobody ever asked to have more choices. For example - I had an old IBM CRT display and it was possible to set it from 50, 55, 60, 62, 66, 68.70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95 and 100 Hz. For the most of time 100Hz was used.

But CRT and LCD differ in very important manner, since image on CRT may "cool down" when not properly refreshed, on LCD is only copied mechanic which is indeed not needed anymore. You can take ANY LCD panel, change its internal behavior and if you want it to display static image, you can archieve it without any "real refresh rate".

Which means - any LCD panel (only the screen, not the electronics inside) has capability of having variable Vblank interval.

Usually these intervals are pre-programmed to 60Hz in both displays and OS. This is most typical for common LCD displays in TVs and for desktop computers. But LCDs in notebooks differ. Every re-fresh requires energy, thats why you can sometimes find notebook or tablet which is capable of variable Vblank - simply because of granting ability to spare as much energy as possible.

Since refresh rate on LCDs is managed by programmable chips its only matter of programming (firmware if you wish) to allow this mode.

All you need is to make graphic card and whole PC aware of this option, and display has to be aware that it does not need to refresh automatically, but it can let current image being displayed until GPU sends new data.

The demo which is still on Anandtech surely did not altered Refresh rate from 60 to 50Hz, as it was working way slower.
post #210 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offler View Post

Display drivers (most people are using "default windows driver") offer fixed refresh rates simply because nobody ever asked to have more choices. For example - I had an old IBM CRT display and it was possible to set it from 50, 55, 60, 62, 66, 68.70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95 and 100 Hz. For the most of time 100Hz was used.

But CRT and LCD differ in very important manner, since image on CRT may "cool down" when not properly refreshed, on LCD is only copied mechanic which is indeed not needed anymore. You can take ANY LCD panel, change its internal behavior and if you want it to display static image, you can archieve it without any "real refresh rate".

Which means - any LCD panel (only the screen, not the electronics inside) has capability of having variable Vblank interval.

Usually these intervals are pre-programmed to 60Hz in both displays and OS. This is most typical for common LCD displays in TVs and for desktop computers. But LCDs in notebooks differ. Every re-fresh requires energy, thats why you can sometimes find notebook or tablet which is capable of variable Vblank - simply because of granting ability to spare as much energy as possible.

Since refresh rate on LCDs is managed by programmable chips its only matter of programming (firmware if you wish) to allow this mode.

All you need is to make graphic card and whole PC aware of this option, and display has to be aware that it does not need to refresh automatically, but it can let current image being displayed until GPU sends new data.

The demo which is still on Anandtech surely did not altered Refresh rate from 60 to 50Hz, as it was working way slower.

Considering both Nvidia and display manufacturers say otherwise, I'd say this isn't true.

There is no easy fix. The timing controller needs to be redesigned. That's hardware, not firmware. You're correct in that there is no inherent need for a fixed refresh rate in an LCD - they can hold a frame, and a CRT can't - but that's not the same thing as saying that it's easy to switch over to variable refresh.

So no, what you describe is not "all you need" - or we would already have it instead of waiting.
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