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[Hardware.fr] AMD FreeSync ': Proposal adopted by VESA - Page 9

post #81 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

From the way I see it, AMD has done what they can do from a cost effective stand point. They pushed for dp 1.2a to be a standard so it'll be easier for all display manufacturers to adopt without having to worry about incompatibility. There's not much else to be done here since current gpus are believed to work with dp 1.2a. The technology already exists so Nvidia didn't invent nothing. All we need to get the ball rolling is more displays that come with dp 1.2a capability since it's not yet a standard and in some few cases firmware upgrades for already existing displays with dp 1.2.
See, I have no problem with nvidia bringing this tech to light but what ticks me off is that Nvidia is claming to have done a ton of work in order for this to work when all they've actually done is ensure it only works with their hardware.

The VRR feature isn't a standard though, but an option within the standard. If VRR was the standard, it wouldn't be an option of the standard itself.

This is hugely important, and something people seem to not be getting.

Basically it means that DP 1.2a will support the abilities, just like eDP does, but it is 100% optional as to if a manufacturer uses it at all. Compared to if it was one of the mandatory features of the standard, in which case all DP 1.2a compliant devices would have to support it.

That isn't the case here.
    
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post #82 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

This entire post is completely wrong.

1) The new hardware required does not exist yet. It has to be developed by someone - Nvidia chose to take on that task. If AMD doesn't do the same, someone else has to. AMD is hoping it will be the display manufacturers. But it won't be guaranteed, you won't be able to just buy a new DP monitor and expect to have it.

2) Because the display manufacturers have to develop it, they WILL charge you for it. You can blame Nvidia all you want, but it will be Asus charging you for FreeSync, if they ever bother to develop it in the first place. Again, a big, big if. What reason would Asus have to not try to recoup their development costs by charging you for new technology that THEY spent money developing?

3) FreeSync's cost and availability is based on a lie, or at the very most generous a gross misstatement. AMD knows full well that it requires new hardware, and told people that, but also told people it wouldn't require new hardware. I am confident calling it a lie, but even if you're not willing to go that far it's at the very least highly deceptive. FreeSync is not free, and it's not freely available. Open does not mean "automatically in everything, at no cost." There is a big step between the ability to have something on other platforms and actually having the thing developed and implemented.

4) The only double standard is the one you're creating. You're expecting Nvidia to not charge for hardware and technology that it developed, and if they don't they're a big mean evil green evil company that's evil. Why shouldn't they? They're doing the work. They're making the effort. They're designing the hardware. They're finding the suppliers. Why shouldn't we pay them for it? Your claim is about as reasonable as saying that we should have gotten Hawaii or Maxwell as open source for no added cost. While G-Sync isn't quite on the same scale of investment as a new GPU, it's still significant and we should still expect to pay for them.

And no, before you ask, I'm not an Nvidia fanboy. I currently have an AMD GPU. I've gone back and forth numerous times. I hold no brand loyalty. But I am holding FreeSync's introduction against AMD, because they've been incredibly deceptive about the whole thing. And they seemed to have succeeded in fooling people: quite simply, you are proof. You and the dozens of other people who have been totally duped, latching on to the "free and open" buzzword and completely missing the wool AMD pulled over your eyes. Variable refresh is the future, and I don't care how we get it. But I don't think it's appropriate for AMD to behave as it has done, basically just trying to sabotage interest in G-Sync because they have nothing to actually offer themselves.

Do the research. Look at the follow-up investigations done by tech reporters. Read the comments by display manufacturers about the level of effort involved. Do your homework before you blame Nvidia for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Just out of pure curiosity, are you in possession of g-sync?
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post #83 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

See, I have no problem with nvidia bringing this tech to light but what ticks me off is that Nvidia is claming to have done a ton of work in order for this to work when all they've actually done is ensure it only works with their hardware.


What Nvidia has done is not the same as what FreeSync is proposing to do. There's a much more fundamental connection and control of the display's refresh timing by the GPU. They have done a ton of work, this has been confirmed by display OEMs (who I'm more likely to believe than hyper-defensive forum posters). Believe me, those display OEMs are chomping at the bit to get G-Sync into displays that they can then sell to us. The level of tinfoil you'd need to be wearing to believe that Nvidia is making a grand conspiracy to fake the amount of development that variable refresh requires is beyond ridiculous.

You're right that AMD has done everything they could do from a cost-effective standpoint. Nvidia, on the other hand, has taken the cost-ineffective approach, to provide us with something that's completely awesome that we didn't have before. And people like you have the nerve to badmouth them for it?

How do you think we get new things? How do you think actual innovation happens?
post #84 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

Just out of pure curiosity, are you in possession of g-sync?

No, because I have an AMD GPU. Why does it matter?
post #85 of 422
at least some things are looking good for amd on this front. hopefully most vendors will eagerly adopt the changes- since, really thinking about it, amd is a major player in supporting up and coming panel tech. it's now up to the union of manufacturers to make this work
post #86 of 422
I hope panel makers support this, although I don't get why they wouldn't support this and support nvidia g-sync...
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post #87 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxOsurfer3xX View Post

I hope panel makers support this, although I don't get why they wouldn't support this and support nvidia g-sync...

They wouldn't. But the big, big difference is that Nvidia is working very closely with display OEMs in order to do the engineering design to make G-Sync work, whereas AMD is just hoping the display OEMs figure FreeSync out on their own.
post #88 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

What Nvidia has done is not the same as what FreeSync is proposing to do. There's a much more fundamental connection and control of the display's refresh timing by the GPU. They have done a ton of work, this has been confirmed by display OEMs (who I'm more likely to believe than hyper-defensive forum posters). Believe me, those display OEMs are chomping at the bit to get G-Sync into displays that they can then sell to us. The level of tinfoil you'd need to be wearing to believe that Nvidia is making a grand conspiracy to fake the amount of development that variable refresh requires is beyond ridiculous.

You're right that AMD has done everything they could do from a cost-effective standpoint. Nvidia, on the other hand, has taken the cost-ineffective approach, to provide us with something that's completely awesome that we didn't have before. And people like you have the nerve to badmouth them for it?

How do you think we get new things? How do you think actual innovation happens?
I really wonder who's being hyperdefensive here. Certainly not me. See, I'm not badmouthing Nvidia. From a business standpoint, their approach makes perfect sense but at the end of the day, it still doesn't work out for the majority of consumers. If Nvidia is so keen on bringing something this awesome to all gamers, they would make it affordable but as it seems, even to the majority of their own gpu users, it's not. I find it funny that you don't see that it's all about them (nvidia) because if they were really enthusiastic, as said chomping display OEMs, about getting this to consumers, at least, they would make it available to amd users whom still have to pay for such displays but no, they locked us out because at the end of day, it's only an attempt to increase market share that Nvidia has capitalized on which again isn't a bad thing from a business standpoint.
Edited by Tobiman - 4/5/14 at 3:57pm
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post #89 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

From a business standpoint, their approach makes perfect sense but at the end of the day, it still doesn't work out for the majority of consumers.

Worth pointing out that with over 50% of GPU consumer market share, making G-Sync require Nvidia cards does, actually, make it work out for the majority of consumers.

But that's irrelevant. What's relevant is that no, you're not entitled to new tech for free. Nvidia is entitled to charge for their development effort, and they're also entitled to prevent their competition from reaping the benefits of their work.

People have said that this is bad for the consumer, but it's actually -GOOD- for us to have proprietary things. Because if Nvidia couldn't make it proprietary, couldn't use it to extend their market share, couldn't use it to move their GPUs, what's their incentive to spend the money and time developing it in the first place? Nobody else was moving toward variable refresh until Nvidia came out with an actual implementation, and placed it in our hands.

If all you want is both companies giving us a new hunk of silicon with a handful more transistors on it every couple years in exchange for several hundred bucks, then by all means, continue to give Nvidia crap for making G-Sync proprietary. If you want them to take risks on actually innovative things, giving us tech we didn't have before, then yes, crack open your wallet and stop being so damn stingy about it.
post #90 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

I really wonder who's being hyperdefensive here. Certainly not me. See, I'm not badmouthing Nvidia. From a business standpoint, their approach makes perfect sense but at the end of the day, it still doesn't work out for the majority of consumers. If Nvidia is so keen on bringing something this awesome tech to all gamers, they would make it affordable but as it seems, even to the majority of their own gpu users, it's not. I find it funny that you don't see that it's all about them (nvidia) because if they were really enthusiastic, as said chomping display OEMs, about getting this to consumers, at least, they would make it available to amd users whom still have to pay for such displays but no, they locked us out because at the end of day, it's only an attempt to increase market share that Nvidia has capitalized on which again isn't a bad thing from a business standpoint.

Two bold parts I added, removed one of yours for clarity....

Variable refresh rate, regardless of form, doesn't benefit all consumers. It benefits laptop users by lowering the power usage of the display itself increasing the battery life. It then benefits gamers, who have to deal with frame rate fluctuations while gaming. No one else benefits from VRR, no one. This isn't a push to the masses as people seem to think, it is a push towards a very specific market in the desktop world, and that would be gamers.

Second part...

Not affordable? Please, do entertain me on this. How is a $150 add-on to displays via a DIY not affordable? For Christ's sake we have people spending $2,000 on just GPUs! Even the displays on the market that have it built in are going to be arriving at the $400 to $800 range. Which is a hell of a deal considering how long people keep their displays, which I believe the average is 5 years on a display.

So the "affordability" argument doesn't fly at all. We have people spending hundreds to thousands PER YEAR on just a GPU setup, so $400 to $800 for a ~5 year product is more than worth it, and more than affordable.

EDIT: Another point on cost; you can easily drop $150 on just video game purchases per year as a gamer, that is 3 major title purchases at their launch, that is it.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 4/5/14 at 4:03pm
    
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