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post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

Again, this is just one benchmark out of dozens. To say that AMD is superior based on just this one benchmark, and just a subset of the benchmark at that, is disingenuous at best. Pretty much any benchmark out there, will show just the opposite: that Intel is superior at most price points for most use cases. Cherry picked benchmarks aside.
Is it a waste to pay a little more for an Intel chip that will use less wattage across thousands of deployments? The actual cost of the chip is only one small part of TCO. In some use cases AMD will win, but for most desktop uses, the Intel will be the better choice.

As was stated above: AMD is second and they want to be first. They will do what they can to get there, even creating misleading marketing releases like this one.

Keep telling yourself that...
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post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

Again, this is just one benchmark out of dozens. To say that AMD is superior based on just this one benchmark, and just a subset of the benchmark at that, is disingenuous at best. Pretty much any benchmark out there, will show just the opposite: that Intel is superior at most price points for most use cases. Cherry picked benchmarks aside.
Is it a waste to pay a little more for an Intel chip that will use less wattage across thousands of deployments? The actual cost of the chip is only one small part of TCO. In some use cases AMD will win, but for most desktop uses, the Intel will be the better choice.

As was stated above: AMD is second and they want to be first. They will do what they can to get there, even creating misleading marketing releases like this one.

Do you even research information before you post nonsense? Like..my mind is blown at your ignorance.

I am all for Intel, but AMD's APUs are by far the better choice for a basic office work computer in every single aspect. Including how much wattage they use..
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post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

Again, this is just one benchmark out of dozens. To say that AMD is superior based on just this one benchmark, and just a subset of the benchmark at that, is disingenuous at best. Pretty much any benchmark out there, will show just the opposite: that Intel is superior at most price points for most use cases. Cherry picked benchmarks aside.
Is it a waste to pay a little more for an Intel chip that will use less wattage across thousands of deployments? The actual cost of the chip is only one small part of TCO. In some use cases AMD will win, but for most desktop uses, the Intel will be the better choice.

As was stated above: AMD is second and they want to be first. They will do what they can to get there, even creating misleading marketing releases like this one.
The situation is more perplexed than your simple view.
Intel is referring to their desktop cpu's as "client" grade. Well, that does not work out. On one hand they are actually trying to lower the performance & power consumption even more to compete with ARM; however they are expected to surpass their previous generation at every lithographical step for marketing purposes. You can only adapt a process so much to perform at multiple extremes of performance scale using the same process technology to start with. So, if you have a "thin client", the chip won't perform as a high end server. And I can actually tell you why that matters: because tablets are actually viable as a stand alone pc experience. You can pretty much do everything with one and the google play store actually makes it easier when you need to find a program. So, Intel cannot actually produce the thin clients they seek because there are even more specialised hardware on the market and the cloud network is still in early adoption while internet bandwidth is yet expensive and latency a big joke.
So, AMD actually deliver better products at everything Intel is not aiming at.
By the way, you are mistaken - AMD is advertising the APU line. In that, they offer "race to sleep" time cut by 5 fold at the very least. Also, if you were to keep your information updated, you would have know that currently AMD does well in idle power efficiency. So, FX line is a "better" server grade counterpart than i5, APU line is better all around. What else to ask for? More endorsed benchmarks, as has been?
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post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberWolf575 View Post

Do you even research information before you post nonsense? Like..my mind is blown at your ignorance.

I am all for Intel, but AMD's APUs are by far the better choice for a basic office work computer in every single aspect. Including how much wattage they use..


Instead of calling me ignorant, why not post some of this evidence you have that proves me wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

The situation is more perplexed than your simple view.
Intel is referring to their desktop cpu's as "client" grade. Well, that does not work out. On one hand they are actually trying to lower the performance & power consumption even more to compete with ARM; however they are expected to surpass their previous generation at every lithographical step for marketing purposes. You can only adapt a process so much to perform at multiple extremes of performance scale using the same process technology to start with. So, if you have a "thin client", the chip won't perform as a high end server. And I can actually tell you why that matters: because tablets are actually viable as a stand alone pc experience. You can pretty much do everything with one and the google play store actually makes it easier when you need to find a program. So, Intel cannot actually produce the thin clients they seek because there are even more specialised hardware on the market and the cloud network is still in early adoption while internet bandwidth is yet expensive and latency a big joke.
So, AMD actually deliver better products at everything Intel is not aiming at.
By the way, you are mistaken - AMD is advertising the APU line. In that, they offer "race to sleep" time cut by 5 fold at the very least. Also, if you were to keep your information updated, you would have know that currently AMD does well in idle power efficiency. So, FX line is a "better" server grade counterpart than i5, APU line is better all around. What else to ask for? More endorsed benchmarks, as has been?

Well, the article was actually pretty specific in what use cases they were claiming superiority so your kind of all over the map with your comment. My post was directed at the specific use case they say they are after: replacing aging computers in schools and hospital environments.

Not all of these users can get by with bare bones minimal spec systems, and when they need more performance, Intel will shine all the brighter.

I wasn't trying to cause a flame fest, and I really wish AMD would be more competitive, but they just aren't except in a few very specific circumstances.
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post #15 of 24
I'd say most schoolwork stuff is going to be more GPU-biased than CPU-based , if the program is coded for it.

School Presentations , documents , spreadsheets, etc all benefit from OpenCL , so if LibreOffice takes off AMD could gain marketshare. Videos, image editing, slides, 7zip, etc all benefit from GPU.

Medical field benefits from OpenCL and the better GPU : imaging for example.

A10-7850K at $189.99 is not a strong SKU, if it was $149.99 it would be along with a $129.99 or $119.99 A10-7700K and $109.99 to $119.99 A8-7600. The i3s destroy AMD at single threaded applications.

The real value of these APUs is that you could put them in small form factors and avoid using garbage Nvidia GT610 , GT620 , GT630 DDR3 discrete graphics on Intel Pentium / i3 OEM PCs.

edit: see this article for what I mean http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/177677-dual-graphics-dud-intel-clobbers-amds-apus-in-budget-gaming

& regarding total power consumed
Quote:
You’re seeing the result of content creation, media encoding, productivity, and compression workloads. Any time you fold in gaming and compare AMD's Radeon R7 engine to HD Graphics 4600, the Kaveri design wins consistently. Whether or not an APU can deliver the frame rate, detail setting, and resolution you want to use is another matter entirely. Still, context is important here because Steamroller just doesn’t do much for the high end of Kaveri as it exists today. There’s a lot more to like at lower power levels when you compare inside of AMD’s portfolio. But once you add low-power Core i3s to the mix, again, Intel comes out on top.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-7850k-a8-7600-kaveri,3725-15.html
Edited by AlphaC - 4/5/14 at 3:08pm
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

This is but marketing. It is common sense.

I always wondered why schools and offices waste so much money on machines that only do word processing and browsing.

Is it a waste to pay a little more for an Intel chip that will use less wattage across thousands of deployments? The actual cost of the chip is only one small part of TCO. In some use cases AMD will win, but for most desktop uses, the Intel will be the better choice.

As was stated above: AMD is second and they want to be first. They will do what they can to get there, even creating misleading marketing releases like this one.

Yes, because it doesn't matter how many deployments there are, the amount of time to make up the price difference in power bill will always be the same.

If the price difference between the chips is $50, and the load draw difference is maybe 20w at the absolute most 24/7/365, then with my own power bill of $0.11/KWh, it will take two and a half years to make up the price difference.

Of course, that's under load, which for a school computer is more like maybe 6 hours a day, and they draw about the same amount idle, so make that 10 years.

It doesn't matter if they have one computer or one million, it will ALWAYS take that 2.5 or 10 years to make up the difference since the same equation applies to each of them.

Understand?


Also Intel is not selling the schools anything. Dell, HP, or Lenovo are. What kind of bulk deals the school gets from them is completely irrelevant as they would get them from AMD-based ones too and has nothing to do with intel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberWolf575 View Post

I am all for Intel, but AMD's APUs are by far the better choice for a basic office work computer in every single aspect. Including how much wattage they use..

I'd replace every i3/i5 with a A8-7600 or A6-7400. Seriously.

Except in the CAD rooms. They need an i5 and low-end CUDA GPU.
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post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

This is but marketing. It is common sense.

I always wondered why schools and offices waste so much money on machines that only do word processing and browsing.

My highschool had to spend its entire budget else the budget would be less next year. Hence every pc was an IMac biggrin.gif The school doesn't care about saving money, it just to spend it all thumb.gif
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post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

My highschool had to spend its entire budget else the budget would be less next year. Hence every pc was an IMac biggrin.gif The school doesn't care about saving money, it just to spend it all thumb.gif

public schools for yah.
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post #19 of 24
AMD has a heritage with charitable events in poverty ridden regions of the world. One of their previous chief engineers went on to seminars telling everybody what possibilities the children would come by if their governments were to purchase the 'Geode' pre-netbooks by bulk. The aim was to manufacture them so much that the price of 100$ per device would eventually be reached. Notice, while these events were occurring, Intel's chief was remarking that this approach was 'imperialistic' by design. This also marks the first time netbooks were considered by Intel.
This isn't about 'bare bone minimal specifications'! The difference is not as high between the brands in that bracket, actually the significant difference rests at A8-A10 class hardware and I don't consider my 6800k as low spec hardware, with the once 200$ gpu of mine currently disabled and not noticing a difference at all.
Edited by mtcn77 - 4/6/14 at 7:56am
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post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

public schools for yah.

Public everything for you actually. I have worked on city, state, and federal projects and they are always like this. Without becoming political, we really do need to find a better way.

Many grants and private companies work this way too though so...... yeah.
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