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First Loop and I have some questions. - Page 7

post #61 of 190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

I would go with push/pull both on top and up front.
A XT45 in p/p or a ST30 in p/p will both outperform a UT60 in push or pull.
Ad of course, if you have less than 80mm space, than a ST30 in push or pull is all you'd be able to fit.

And did I mention the Koolance bracket? If you want to slap in a 360, or 480 without hacking out your case.

I don't think an XT45 in p/p will fit on the top of the 750D though (much less the arc XL).. I think I'd have to go with a 30mm width rad to go p/p on the top of the 750D.

I'm now leaning pretty heavily toward the Corsair 750D though, after reading some reviews on it. The price is comparable to the fractal case, and the corsair accomodates a thicker radiator. Since you guys have talked me in to two radiators already, rather than one, it seems fitting to just go with dual 240 rads, one top mounted & one front mounted.

I am starting to feel like for a system that isn't overclocked that 8 fans (if i went p/p on both rads) is a bit excessive though, and might just start adding noise. I get that I can run each fan at less than 1000rpms to keep noise down, but the system could be aircooled to within reasonable limits using:

1x cpu fan
3x gpu fan
3x case fans

so 7 fans. Only 3 (the case fans) of those fans are 120mm, the other 4 are much much smaller. I feel like 4-6x 120mm is already an improvement, in that I've reduced the number of fans, increased their size, and started spinning them more slowly. It seems like with 4 ( each rad with 2 fans in either push or pull) or 6 (one rad in p/p the other in one or the other), I've managed to reduce the number of fans, and the amount of noise my computer generates.


Will 8 fans (if I shrunk down to a 30mm rad and had 2x 240mm rads in p/p) really improve performance without adding unnecessary noise? It almost seems like 6 fans (attached to two 240mm rads, one in p/p the other in either push or pull) would be sufficient for my use case.
Edited by e64462 - 4/7/14 at 4:51pm
post #62 of 190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtaylorx View Post

really nice, especially for watercooling!!!
That's a nice looking setup you have. I like the looks of the 750D it seems to have all the features the arc xl has, with a few more more thoughtful design decisions.
post #63 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by e64462 View Post

I don't think an XT45 in p/p will fit on the top of the 750D though (much less the arc XL).. I think I'd have to go with a 30mm width rad to go p/p on the top of the 750D.

I'm now leaning pretty heavily toward the Corsair 750D though, after reading some reviews on it. The price is comparable to the fractal case, and the corsair accomodates a thicker radiator. Since you guys have talked me in to two radiators already, rather than one, it seems fitting to just go with dual 240 rads, one top mounted & one front mounted.

I am starting to feel like for a system that isn't overclocked that 8 fans (if i went p/p on both rads) is a bit excessive though, and might just start adding noise. I get that I can run each fan at less than 1000rpms to keep noise down, but the system could be aircooled to within reasonable limits using:

1x cpu fan
3x gpu fan
3x case fans

so 7 fans. Only 3 (the case fans) of those fans are 120mm, the other 4 are much much smaller. I feel like 4-6x 120mm is already an improvement, in that I've reduced the number of fans, increased their size, and started spinning them more slowly. It seems like with 4 ( each rad with 2 fans in either push or pull) or 6 (one rad in p/p the other in one or the other), I've managed to reduce the number of fans, and the amount of noise my computer generates. Will 8 fans (if I shrunk down to a 30mm rad and had 2x 240mm rads in p/p) really improve performance without adding unnecessary noise? It almost seems like 6 fans (attached to two 240mm rads, one in p/p the other in either push or pull) would be sufficient for my use case.

A rad with p/p will tend to be just a little less noisy than one with push or pull.
But yeah, your setup would work just fine.
But don't try too hard to go thick on rads. Both the ST30, and XT45 will outperform the thicker UT60 and Monsta when fans are below 1000 rpm. The difference is minuscule, but there none the less.
Thick rads really isn't where it's at.

And you will not regret going with 120.4 instead of just 120.2. thumb.gif
You will even have room for OCing if you want. And at stock clocks, it will be completely silent, even under load.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 4/7/14 at 4:59pm
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post #64 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

A rad with p/p will tend to be just a little less noisy than one with push or pull.
But yeah, your setup would work just fine.
But don't try too hard to go thick on rads. Both the ST30, and XT45 will outperform the thicker UT60 and Monsta when fans are below 1000 rpm. The difference is minuscule, but there none the less.
Thick rads really isn't where it's at.

And you will not regret going with 120.4 instead of just 120.2. thumb.gif
You will even have room for OCing if you want. And at stock clocks, it will be completely silent, even under load.

So I should probably purchase a 30mm rad for the top, only stick 2 fans on it, keep a close eye on temps, and then purchase 2 more fans to set it up in p/p if temps aren't within normal limits. Then set up a 60mm rad in the front of my case in p/p.

Here's my idea for the loop, right now. I know the top rad says 240, but that's because I made it before we had htis conversation. Any critiques are welcome.

post #65 of 190
Thread Starter 
I don't know if it makes more sense to go

Pump -> rad -> cpu -> gpu -> rad -> pump.

My thought was to stick a radiator in between cpu and gpu, but I've read that after a few minutes the temperature of the loop stabilizes and there isn't much variation between the hotest and coldest points. I guess tell me what you guys think, please biggrin.gif
post #66 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by e64462 View Post

I am starting to feel like for a system that isn't overclocked that 8 fans (if i went p/p on both rads) is a bit excessive though, and might just start adding noise. I get that I can run each fan at less than 1000rpms to keep noise down, but the system could be aircooled to within reasonable limits using:

1x cpu fan
3x gpu fan
3x case fans
If you're going with a 360 or 2 240 rads push/pull really isn't going to do much. Start with just push and if you find you need more fans, you can always add them later. Why spend more money on fans you most likely will not need? Also, thick rads with low fpi (fins per inch) are great for less noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e64462 View Post

I don't know if it makes more sense to go

Pump -> rad -> cpu -> gpu -> rad -> pump.

My thought was to stick a radiator in between cpu and gpu, but I've read that after a few minutes the temperature of the loop stabilizes and there isn't much variation between the hotest and coldest points. I guess tell me what you guys think, please biggrin.gif
The only thing that really matters is that the res must be over the pump and since you have a res/pump combo it doesn't really matter.
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post #67 of 190
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You're the second person who's told me that p/p doesn't improve performance much over just a push configuration (or pull). It would also save me ~ $40 in the intial purchase to just go with a push configuration.
post #68 of 190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazed_1 View Post

Also, thick rads with low fpi (fins per inch) are great for less noise.
It's my belief that the alphacool UT60 and ST30 have rather low fpi, which is why I've settled on those for the time being. Do i have this wrong?
post #69 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by e64462 View Post

It's my belief that the alphacool UT60 and ST30 have rather low fpi, which is why I've settled on those for the time being. Do i have this wrong?
You got it right.
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post #70 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by e64462 View Post

It's my belief that the alphacool UT60 and ST30 have rather low fpi, which is why I've settled on those for the time being. Do i have this wrong?

Slim low fpi rads for slow silent fans.
And thick higher fpi rads for high speed fans.
So yeah, you are correct.
But if you are a visual dude, like me, you will understand this graph better:

Notice how the ST30 outperforms all other rads below 800 rpm.
Now mind you, Martin is a fanatic. You will never notice the difference between a ST30 and a UT60 at any fan speeds, unless you were using presice tests with very accurate tools.

But it just goes to show how thickness is not always where it's at.
Still, the UT60 in p/p would outperform the ST30, even below 1000 rpm.
The problem with thick rads and high fpi rads, is that the offer too much restriction. The fans just can't push the air throught them, especially at low speeds.

An other problem is this: as the air travels down the rad, it gradually warms up. The warmer it gets, the more 'useless' it becomes at cooling the water.
So basically, the thicker rads just hold the 'useless' air for longer.

To counter all these problems, you have to crank up the fans on thick high fpi rads.

So my advise is always the same:
Go with the Alphacool rads, best performers. And go as thick as you can while preserving p/p. If you can't or won't get p/p, than get the ST30.
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