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[ArsTech] Not dead yet: Dutch, British governments pay to keep Windows XP alive - Page 5

post #41 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by istudy92 View Post

I am pretty sure the IT dept, calculated it would be cheaper to wait for windows 9 to come out, wait for reviews and implement it afterwords instead of jumping into 7 which is 5 years old.
they could jump 8.1 and go to desktop and disable metro.
post #42 of 89
Well the custom support program doubles in price every year .. so companies are going to be forced to change... but ie the bank I work for is having a living hell with win 7. They can't even get the ip phone client or cisco vpn working with it yet... and that doesnt even get into the internal systems. The launch has been delayed for 2 years and counting now... I shudder to think about win 8 +.
post #43 of 89
Quote:
Imagine a fortune 500 company with 2,000 employees that need to be retrained on how to use their computer.

How exactly is this a fortune 500 company with 2000 employees that need secular training to work an os that anyone can figure out in an hour or so. I wouldn't want to trust this company with anything if they can't figure out a simple dumbed down OS ( read windows 8 / 8.1 ).

Ultimately though if they were smart and they already have these IT teams. Pay the training, convert the software and go open source. Then you are in full control of it and you can keep it on life support forever if you so choose. Big up front cost yes, but pays for itself in a reasonable amount of time in the end. The majority of the code is out there free to use already. To anyone who says it would cost to much I say they didn't plan the cost of business and to bad. their own fault.

I have no sympathy for anyone, corporations / governments in particular. They are dealing with incredibly important stuff ( so they claim since it's all top secret for some reason ) and they rely on ancient stuff to do it. If the world worked like this in general we wouldn't have ever come up with the wheel... hell walking still works fine so why change it. They knew this was coming for YEARS now and did absolutely nothing. Greed at its finest.

*EDIT* The other beauty is that statistically open source stuff, even the KDE DE is tons lighter than windows unless you totally strip it down. Fresh totally up to date software would work fine on their old hardware.
Edited by Tadaen Sylvermane - 4/6/14 at 7:45pm
 
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post #44 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

they could jump 8.1 and go to desktop and disable metro.

Windows 8.1 actually breaks compatibility with alot of software/hardware especially the old ones.

it needs certified WDM 1.3 for device to work properly.


as an example, my Alienware m17x r3 is stuck on using GPU driver (so graphics switching and brighness control WORK) that came from DELL as any other version is not compatible (it breaks the said issue) and dell haven't updated the GPU driver since that initial release.


i could only imagine how many old or ancient devices corporation use that doesn't have new drivers since those machines were created at the time of Windows XP.
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post #45 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by raclimja View Post

Windows 8.1 actually breaks compatibility with alot of software/hardware especially the old ones.

it needs certified WDM 1.3 for device to work properly.


as an example, my Alienware m17x r3 is stuck on using GPU driver (so graphics switching and brighness control WORK) that came from DELL as any other version is not compatible (it breaks the said issue) and dell haven't updated the GPU driver since that initial release.


i could only imagine how many old or ancient devices corporation use that doesn't have new drivers since those machines were created at the time of Windows XP.

Did you try the generic mobile drivers? I used generic driver for my M15X R2 and everything worked fine. Had a 5850M
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post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadaen Sylvermane View Post

How exactly is this a fortune 500 company with 2000 employees that need secular training to work an os that anyone can figure out in an hour or so. I wouldn't want to trust this company with anything if they can't figure out a simple dumbed down OS ( read windows 8 / 8.1 ).

Ultimately though if they were smart and they already have these IT teams. Pay the training, convert the software and go open source. Then you are in full control of it and you can keep it on life support forever if you so choose. Big up front cost yes, but pays for itself in a reasonable amount of time in the end. The majority of the code is out there free to use already. To anyone who says it would cost to much I say they didn't plan the cost of business and to bad. their own fault.

I have no sympathy for anyone, corporations / governments in particular. They are dealing with incredibly important stuff ( so they claim since it's all top secret for some reason ) and they rely on ancient stuff to do it. If the world worked like this in general we wouldn't have ever come up with the wheel... hell walking still works fine so why change it. They knew this was coming for YEARS now and did absolutely nothing. Greed at its finest.

*EDIT* The other beauty is that statistically open source stuff, even the KDE DE is tons lighter than windows unless you totally strip it down. Fresh totally up to date software would work fine on their old hardware.

Not to mention if your IT department isn't total idiots they can actually save a good deal of money converting to something FOSS. I mean that is if you trust the German (Berlin IIRC) and I think the Brazilian governments on reporting such things.

But now we know what countries will be the favorite targets of people wanting to sink their teeth in hacking. Seriously...XP is old and needs to die.
     
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post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by firagabird View Post

Microsoft shouldn't have caved in. They gave YEARS of warning that XP support would come to an end. If certain organizations do not wish to or is not capable of upgrading their systems for whatever reasons, then caveat emptor. It shouldn't be MS's responsibility to maintain support for ancient (yes, 10 years is a very long time in IT) software.
It does not work like that.

The complexity of enterprise systems.... and public systems are massive. They are mind-blowingly complex and there's all the legal/political stuff involved.

MS didn't cave in.... they already have had extend life programs for these cases.

10 years however is not that long for certain software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadaen Sylvermane View Post

How exactly is this a fortune 500 company with 2000 employees that need secular training to work an os that anyone can figure out in an hour or so. I wouldn't want to trust this company with anything if they can't figure out a simple dumbed down OS ( read windows 8 / 8.1 ).

Ultimately though if they were smart and they already have these IT teams. Pay the training, convert the software and go open source. Then you are in full control of it and you can keep it on life support forever if you so choose. Big up front cost yes, but pays for itself in a reasonable amount of time in the end. The majority of the code is out there free to use already. To anyone who says it would cost to much I say they didn't plan the cost of business and to bad. their own fault.

I have no sympathy for anyone, corporations / governments in particular. They are dealing with incredibly important stuff ( so they claim since it's all top secret for some reason ) and they rely on ancient stuff to do it. If the world worked like this in general we wouldn't have ever come up with the wheel... hell walking still works fine so why change it. They knew this was coming for YEARS now and did absolutely nothing. Greed at its finest.

*EDIT* The other beauty is that statistically open source stuff, even the KDE DE is tons lighter than windows unless you totally strip it down. Fresh totally up to date software would work fine on their old hardware.
That is vastly simplifying the world.... have you ever worked on an enterprise upgrade/migration? Do you know how much liability and 3rd party support is required?

i.e. I recently had to work on moving AIX/Solaris to Linux.... some of the software contracts were 20 years old. It took 9 months of negotiations and a lot of money to get the Linux library. That's just for one piece of software. It took us two years to get through the DBMS licence negotiations due to politics involved.

This stuff is NOT easy. This stuff is important so that why they continue to run on systems were they KNOW it will work.
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post #48 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by elreyhorus View Post

Ugh.
Too many devices are still using XP Embedded edition like ATMS and Point of Service (POS) cash registers.

Meanwhile, I am trying to decide which Linux distro to install on my legacy Pentium M-era Toshiba.
Current hardware: Pentium M 'Dothan' 2.0 Ghz, 2 GB DDR 266, ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 32MB, 160 GB 5400 RPM HDD (might replace with a PATA SSD or PATA to Compact Flash reader)

The contenders are Linux Mint, Lubuntu/Xubuntu, or Puppy Linux. I plan on testing out each by booting off a live CD.
Thoughts?

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/radiorahim/2014/04/rip-windows-xp-2001-2014-what-can-you-do-now

also consider crunchbang linux I run it on a 1.6 Dothan smile.gif
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post #49 of 89
Quote:
That is vastly simplifying the world.... have you ever worked on an enterprise upgrade/migration? Do you know how much liability and 3rd party support is required?

I will admit it is over simplifying. But at the same time I think people over complicate things. I do all the time. The bottom line is it is a cost of doing business. They didn't plan for it like they should have. I fail to see why that isn't being addressed. They didn't plan ahead. Instead they (stupidly) thought that things last forever.... News flash, they don't. Especially in the technology sector. Stuff is outdated before you buy it. As far as the original topic being government and not business I see this as nothing more than failing to plan ahead and again ( as seems to be the usual order of business for government ) wasting taxpayers money on delaying the inevitable. They will keep throwing money at it hoping it will go away. But in the end ( not to go political ) they are kicking the can down the road just like the US government currently is. It's just a waste.

They knew it was coming and did nothing. Now they are spending even more money to keep something alive that has been pushed past its lifetime a few times now. I admit to being an open source advocate. But this is how it works when you rely on closed source. You dump tons of money into something and then you have to dump exponentially more to upgrade. With open source the cost is drastically less and you have far more control. Want support, go Redhat or Suse. I would imagine their support contracts cost the same, likely less than official MS support packages. Just another casualty of the closed source world.
Quote:
This stuff is NOT easy. This stuff is important so that why they continue to run on systems were they KNOW it will work.

Granted. But again, why didn't they plan for this? They knew it was coming.
Edited by Tadaen Sylvermane - 4/6/14 at 8:25pm
 
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post #50 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

It probably would have been much cheaper to just upgrade to Windows 7/8.

Nah. Replacing and revalidating an OS and all the programs you need to use on it is a way bigger hassle than just patching security holes in the existing setups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgtbash View Post

They have known about the xp end of life for how long?

Forever, which is why they are paying for an extension, so it can continue to stay relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elreyhorus View Post

The contenders are Linux Mint, Lubuntu/Xubuntu, or Puppy Linux. I plan on testing out each by booting off a live CD.

I'm really liking lubuntu. Light, yet still easy to pick up for someone who has primarily used Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

They need to upgrade sooner or later.

Depends on what the systems in question are doing. Many of these are on embedded systems that will never need to be upgraded until the hardware fails in twenty years.

Intel didn't stop producing 386 processors until 2007, because people were still building embedded systems with them. People had been turning such CPU inside out for 20 years so they were damn near perfectly predictable and perfectly reliable, not to mention being way more powerful than some tasks need (and not being remotely fast enough to run XP with confidence).

Plenty of systems are just tools, and it's often an "if it's not broke, don't fix it" scenario. There are countless tasks a more modern system/OS just will not do any better.
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