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[ArsTech] Not dead yet: Dutch, British governments pay to keep Windows XP alive - Page 6

post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadaen Sylvermane View Post

I will admit it is over simplifying. But at the same time I think people over complicate things. I do all the time. The bottom line is it is a cost of doing business. They didn't plan for it like they should have. I fail to see why that isn't being addressed. They didn't plan ahead. Instead they (stupidly) thought that things last forever.... News flash, they don't. Especially in the technology sector. Stuff is outdated before you buy it. As far as the original topic being government and not business I see this as nothing more than failing to plan ahead and again ( as seems to be the usual order of business for government ) wasting taxpayers money on delaying the inevitable. They will keep throwing money at it hoping it will go away. But in the end ( not to go political ) they are kicking the can down the road just like the US government currently is. It's just a waste.

They knew it was coming and did nothing. Now they are spending even more money to keep something alive that has been pushed past its lifetime a few times now. I admit to being an open source advocate. But this is how it works when you rely on closed source. You dump tons of money into something and then you have to dump exponentially more to upgrade. With open source the cost is drastically less and you have far more control. Want support, go Redhat or Suse. I would imagine their support contracts cost the same, likely less than official MS support packages. Just another casualty of the closed source world.
Granted. But again, why didn't they plan for this? They knew it was coming.
No, there is no such thing as over-complicating things when you are dealing with public sector enterprise technology. A big part of the complexity is due to the legal requirements and how governments do business.... the current bidding and procurement model does NOT work with technology.

You have to consider the structure of these organizations. For example, technology is extremely low on their lists.... they just have to make sure things work... let the next person in power deal with it... etc. These technology upgrades also require massive amounts of coordination and huge resources in roll-out. Have you ever tried coordinating an OS upgrade for a company of 10K+? You have to validate every single piece of software (in-house and vendor). You also have to validate every piece of hardware as well.

OSS absolutely does NOT solve this problem. The problem here is NOT a proprietary vs FOSS issue but a planning and depreciation issue. OSes and applications still need developers and patches. For example, RHEL 4 (launched in 2005) now requires Extended Update Support.... the same type of contact required for MS's XP support.

I am an OSS advocate myself.... Within my company of 30K+ employees, my group is the biggest consumer of FOSS and one of the first to Linux. However, I recognize the difficulty of enterprise-level systems. This stuff is not easy and unless you have good technology teams with management multi-year support.... it's hard to get things done.
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post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

Cant we just privatise the public sector and get on with it wink.gif
Be careful of what you ask for...

I don't really think you want that... unless you are a contractor trying to take over the process and make all the money for yourself.
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post #53 of 89
It tool the city of Munich almost a decade to switch to Linux and the government of Australia 7 years to settle on ODF. Then there are three or 4 levels of classified networks to deal with. We really just finished the 7 roll out last year. I would like to see the USG come up with a USG Linux distro the USN is starting to maybe the rest should too but this stuff doesn't happen tomorrow but there is no time like the present to start. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step and all that.
 
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post #54 of 89
Heh... with all these folks fussing about this.... imagine this... at my job, they just started rolling out Windows 7 machines like in the past year or so... and we are still using Internet Explorer 8... imagine all the places we go that don't support that anymore.

Yeah, it's frustrating, but big businesses move at a slow deliberate pace... and they aren't ones to lead the charge for change. Believe that (add Governments into the mix and wow..... now you are REALLY moving at a deliberate pace.)
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post #55 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFury View Post

Be careful of what you ask for...

I don't really think you want that... unless you are a contractor trying to take over the process and make all the money for yourself.

wink.gif
post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

It probably would have been much cheaper to just upgrade to Windows 7/8.

The cost's aren't even close WAYYYYYYYYYY cheaper to stay XP.
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post #57 of 89
The OS that just won't die.
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post #58 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFury View Post

Yeah, it's frustrating, but big businesses move at a slow deliberate pace... and they aren't ones to lead the charge for change. Believe that (add Governments into the mix and wow..... now you are REALLY moving at a deliberate pace.)

Unless you are in a big cutting-edge tech business! thumb.gif


However, those companies focus is already technology and their management are from technology. Plus they have less legacy systems to support and are architectured to be more flexible.
Edited by DuckieHo - 4/7/14 at 7:21am
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post #59 of 89
You win. But I still say it's ridiculous.cheers.gif

There is more to it than I thought. You have educated me on that. I just can't understand why no one plans for this type of thing. That is where I'm stuck. Is there a lot involved yes. But things don't last forever, anyone knows that. Why they wait till the last minute blows my mind. But then I'm ready or present for almost everything IRL at least 30 minutes in advance. I can't grasp the concept of being late, especially with so much advance warning and notice.
Edited by Tadaen Sylvermane - 4/7/14 at 9:40am
 
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post #60 of 89
Moving to FOSS would help save on cost on purchasing software, but it still wouldn't necessary increase the roll out of new updates. Everything has to be tested, retested, and tested again in testing environments before being rolled out to production systems. When you have 1k, 4k, and even 20k, you can't afford to screw up. You have to make sure every piece of software and every single update doesn't break anything. Try to cover as many possible scenarios you can think of. Let alone you can't afford productivity downtime. It's why companies don't do update's on a daily basis and when they do they try to do them on off hours like 2 - 3am. Mission critical systems like servers have to be up and running 24/7.

It isn't easy in a professional, production environment. Computers are used as critical tools in this environment and simply can't afford constant downtime. When its required it has to be scheduled well in advanced, appropriately, and done precisely and precision takes time.
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