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[ArsTech] Not dead yet: Dutch, British governments pay to keep Windows XP alive - Page 9

post #81 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Because Linux is expensive? Sounds like an oxymoron, but if you want Linux support, you will pay for it and it will cost more than Microsoft. Windows and even OS X are better for business computers because of the relative ease of support.

Uh, no.

Not even close.

OS X simply does not offer massive support for business computers. It just does not exist. Windows does. But you need to buy windows 8 for business, which is like 1,500 bucks for 5 copies. You also need to buy windows office 360 for almost 4,000 dollars per 5 computers.

With ubuntu, you pay zero.

The real problems comes down to support. Microsoft will not help you integrate or support you behind basic problems. For anything more then that or to help you install for your personal problems, you will need a windows certified pinpoint professional. They run about 2,000 dollars a month. Will require a contract and will admin your system.

With ubuntu, you pay 3,000 bucks a year for the same services.

24,000 dollars a year vs 3,000 bucks a year. Not even close.

I played this game a while ago.

I went with windows 8 integration. After fighting windows 8 for 6 months, I dropped the whole thing and went with ubuntu.

For the cost I would have paid for the other 6 months of service, I could pay the termination fee and 3 full years of service for ubuntu.

The system now work flawlessly and I am not fighting windows 8.
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post #82 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

Uh, no.

Not even close.

OS X simply does not offer massive support for business computers. It just does not exist. Windows does. But you need to buy windows 8 for business, which is like 1,500 bucks for 5 copies. You also need to buy windows office 360 for almost 4,000 dollars per 5 computers.

With ubuntu, you pay zero.

The real problems comes down to support. Microsoft will not help you integrate or support you behind basic problems. For anything more then that or to help you install for your personal problems, you will need a windows certified pinpoint professional. They run about 2,000 dollars a month. Will require a contract and will admin your system.

With ubuntu, you pay 3,000 bucks a year for the same services.

24,000 dollars a year vs 3,000 bucks a year. Not even close.

I played this game a while ago.

I went with windows 8 integration. After fighting windows 8 for 6 months, I dropped the whole thing and went with ubuntu.

For the cost I would have paid for the other 6 months of service, I could pay the termination fee and 3 full years of service for ubuntu.

The system now work flawlessly and I am not fighting windows 8.

You just forgot the fact that schools and government agencies get massive discount on Windows licenses.
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post #83 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

I'm guessing you have absolutely zero experience in large or legacy systems? rolleyes.gif
I'm sure you are right on this assumption...

People are only seeing this from the "desktop experience".... they aren't looking at it from an enterprise experience where multiple interfaces and custom software get involved....

The statement ... "easier said than done..." comes to mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orlfman View Post

That's implying that it cost the same or more to keep xp alive than to upgrade all their hardware and port over or have to develop all new software to replace their old software. Even right now its probably still cheaper to pay microsoft a few million a year than to revamp their entire hardware infrastructure.

Businesses are businesses. All they care about is dollar signs and present day profit.

Yup...

For business purposes, when stuff just "works"... they tend to stick with it as a sunk cost of business. They aren't in the business to follow "trends" until they are absolutely forced to do so. That is the one bad thing of throwing your business dependency into one provider... as they can really throw a monkeywrench into your organization should they decide to change the direction of their support.

Either way, once a cost/benefit analysis and and risk management strategy has been developed... only then will a GOOD business make the choice to pay for continuing current support or fully upgrade to the new standard (and even then, the upgrade doesn't necessarily mean that they'll move all the way to the "latest greatest" version. I know that we skipped Vista and went to Windows 7... even though they knew Windows 8 was coming out. Of course, they aren't sold on Windows 8 from what I've heard/seen so I don't expect to have that loaded to my work computer anytime soon....
Edited by DarkFury - 4/8/14 at 9:34am
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post #84 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by damric View Post

The fact that Microsoft allowed sales of XP as late as 2010 is pretty alarming.
Why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't they sell it now if someone wants it, understanding that there's no support anymore? Apple sells new versions of OS X and jerks support for them in less time than that. OS X 10.6 came out in August 2009 and is already out of support, and hasn't had an update since 2011 anyway.

If I were running Microsoft, I'd sell Windows 1.0 to someone if they requested it.
     
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post #85 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Because Linux is expensive? Sounds like an oxymoron, but if you want Linux support, you will pay for it and it will cost more than Microsoft. Windows and even OS X are better for business computers because of the relative ease of support.

Uh, no.

Not even close.

OS X simply does not offer massive support for business computers. It just does not exist. Windows does. But you need to buy windows 8 for business, which is like 1,500 bucks for 5 copies. You also need to buy windows office 360 for almost 4,000 dollars per 5 computers.

With ubuntu, you pay zero.

The real problems comes down to support. Microsoft will not help you integrate or support you behind basic problems. For anything more then that or to help you install for your personal problems, you will need a windows certified pinpoint professional. They run about 2,000 dollars a month. Will require a contract and will admin your system.

With ubuntu, you pay 3,000 bucks a year for the same services.

24,000 dollars a year vs 3,000 bucks a year. Not even close.

I played this game a while ago.

I went with windows 8 integration. After fighting windows 8 for 6 months, I dropped the whole thing and went with ubuntu.

For the cost I would have paid for the other 6 months of service, I could pay the termination fee and 3 full years of service for ubuntu.

The system now work flawlessly and I am not fighting windows 8.

That works it you have a smaller house with no specialized SW and a reasonably tech savvy crew. That doesn't work if you have special SW a large enterpise and/or you need to retraing your entire staff. Personally I wouldn't hitch my horse to cCanonical quite yet, they've yet to make money so there no guarantee that Shuttleworth will continue to keep Canonical afloat. If I were going to hitch it'd be to Red Hat in the States and SuSE in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by damric View Post

The fact that Microsoft allowed sales of XP as late as 2010 is pretty alarming.
Why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't they sell it now if someone wants it, understanding that there's no support anymore? Apple sells new versions of OS X and jerks support for them in less time than that. OS X 10.6 came out in August 2009 and is already out of support, and hasn't had an update since 2011 anyway.

If I were running Microsoft, I'd sell Windows 1.0 to someone if they requested it.

Apple stull supports Snow Leopard for it's business and enterprise customers it's not particularly cheap. The also will not back port to new HW which means during lifecycle replacement you are going to have to upgrade. Having said that since Apple is moving to ~1yr release cycle I wish they'd have a LTS's release every few.

Both companies are out to make money so flexibility costs money.
Edited by GermanyChris - 4/8/14 at 10:31am
 
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post #86 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

That works it you have a smaller house with no specialized SW and a reasonably tech savvy crew. That doesn't work if you have special SW a large enterpise and/or you need to retraing your entire staff. Personally I wouldn't hitch my horse to canonical quite yet, they've yet to make money so there no guarantee that Shuttleworth will continue to Canonical afloat. If I were going to hitch it's be to Red Hat in the States and SuSE in Europe.

Yeah, RHEL in the US and SUSE in Europe are pretty much the standard distros in enterprise systems.

MS will support more than basic problems.... it depends on the support level you pay for.
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post #87 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

Why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't they sell it now if someone wants it, understanding that there's no support anymore? Apple sells new versions of OS X and jerks support for them in less time than that. OS X 10.6 came out in August 2009 and is already out of support, and hasn't had an update since 2011 anyway.

If I were running Microsoft, I'd sell Windows 1.0 to someone if they requested it.

Yea but Mavericks is free. So you can't really say they cut support, because you arn't forced to buy the newest product, you just upgrade for free (on compatible hardware). Mavericks is just a big update packaged as a new OS.

If your running an older Macbook that isn't supported, then I guess it could be viewed as planned obsolesce.

.. I forgot what my point was
Edited by .:hybrid:. - 4/8/14 at 12:32pm
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post #88 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

Yea but Mavericks is free. So you can't really say they cut support, because you arn't forced to buy the newest product, you just upgrade for free (on compatible hardware). Mavericks is just a big update packaged as a new OS.

If your running an older Macbook that isn't supported, then I guess it could be viewed as planned obsolesce.

.. I forgot what my point was

An OS update isn't free for enterprise systems.

Even if the vendor provides the update for zero-cost, the business has to spend the time and money to plan, test, fix, and deploy. People seem to keep forgetting this is where the cost is.
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post #89 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

That accounting junk is really just some reporting that has tie ins to some federal database and a few local ones. Aside from that I don't even know much about it. It's been offered to replace it as it should not be to hard to make something. However, the management over there says it is working fine and doesn't want to pay for the development...even though the support of it is probably costing them more. rolleyes.gif

But XBRL(the general reporting form) and the ruling bodies (FASB,GAAP,GASB) demand reporting be done with the current adopted year's rules. Essentially, unless you're reporting change in basis or transitions to new rules there should be no reason to continue with the old. If they are I'd start worrying. This assumes they're a public company and need to report 10Ks and so on. If their private then they might get little more slack but even there banks and other lenders are always looking for excuses to raise rates or lend less at a higher rate. Hell, even business partners and suppliers start getting concerned.
     
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